All UK INTERNET Gateways

[rr]

ALL Gateway Details
(Note that entries shown in green have passed through Frequency
Coordination and are with RA for licensing.
Entries shown in red are new applications, pending Frequency
Coordination. Gateways which we have been advised are dormant are
listed in grey italics.

Callsign Freq Location Locator Last Updated
G0SXC 29.5300 whalley I089st 4/10/2004 14:54
G0SXC 51.9300 whalley I089st 4/10/2004 14:54
GU6EFB 431.2000 Guernsey IN89rk 18/3/2002 17:21
GJ4CBQ 434.4750 St Lawrence IN89wf 2/10/2004 20:05
MI0CEO 145.2875 Mossley IO64 27/6/2001 19:13
GI3YMT 434.4750 Belfast IO64 7/6/2002 14:54
GI0VJE 70.3875 Strabane IO64gt 6/2/2004 22:27
GI4GEL 434.5000 Donaghcloney IO64wg 10/5/2003 17:39
GI4LKG 145.2875 Lisburn IO64xm 13/9/2001 07:11
GI4LKG 431.2000 Lisburn IO64xm 13/9/2001 07:11
MI0AAZ 145.3375 Coleraine IO65qd 8/5/2002 15:46
MI0AAZ 431.0750 Coleraine IO65qd 19/9/2000 09:00
MI5UTC 434.5000 Coleraine IO65qd 10/5/2002 20:50
MI0RTX 70.4125 Dervock IO65sd 22/7/2003 16:51
GM7PBB 145.3375 Eoropie IO68um 18/4/2001 09:00
G0KTD 145.2875 St Austell IO70oi 2/9/2002 09:57
G0KTD 434.4750 St Austell IO70oi 26/9/2002 23:45
G7FEK 430.0500 Saltash IO70vj 29/3/2004 17:53
G7DQC 431.1500 Plymouth IO70vj 23/3/2001 09:00
G7FEK 434.5000 Saltash IO70vj 29/3/2004 17:53
G7DQC 434.5250 Plymouth IO70vj 9/5/2001 12:35
M5PLY 145.2875 Plymouth IO70wj 29/10/2001 11:10
G7DIR 431.1500 Plymouth IO70wj 16/8/2001 12:34
G3PGA 145.2875 Fremington IO71wb 12/6/2002 17:03
GI0UTV 145.3375 Belfast IO74bo 21/6/2001 09:45
2I0UCS 431.1750 Newtownabbey IO74bp 5/5/2004 11:28
2D0IOM 434.5000 Castletown IO74qb 28/9/2004 11:29
MD0IOM 145.3375 Strang, Douglas IO74re 2/10/2003 17:52
MD0IOM 434.5000 Strang, Douglas IO74re 2/10/2003 17:51
GD4KIN 51.9200 Douglas IOM IO74se 20/12/2002 15:02
GD4KIN 145.2875 Douglas IO74se 4/10/2004 12:36
GD4KIN 434.5250 Douglas IOM IO74se 6/2/2004 22:38
GD7JWR 51.9100 Agneash IoM IO74tf 21/3/2004 11:30
GD7JWR 145.2875 Agneash IoM IO74tf 21/3/2004 11:31
GD7JWR 434.4750 Agneash IoM IO74tf 21/3/2004 11:29
2D0MSF 430.0625 Ramsey IO74th 20/6/2004 10:26
GM3ZXG 430.0125 Greenock IO75ow 5/2/2003 17:52
2M0ROS 70.3875 Alexandria IO75rx 5/10/2004 19:37
2M1HXL 145.2875 Alexandria IO75rx 27/6/2002 19:41
MM1BJP 145.2875 Alexandria IO75rx 2/12/2001 16:14
2M1HXL 434.5000 Alexandria IO75RX 9/9/2003 17:23
MM1BJP 434.5000 Alexandria IO75RX 9/9/2003 17:23
MM0BJA 145.2875 Bearsden, Glasgow IO75uv 14/8/2002 10:49
MM0BJA 430.0500 Bearsden IO75uv 16/4/2003 17:06
GM7JDS 145.3375 Kirkintilloch IO75ww 14/2/2002 22:11
GM7JDS 431.1500 Kirkintilloch IO75ww 29/10/2001 11:10
GM7JDS 434.5250 Kirkintilloch IO75ww 20/3/2003 22:17
MM1DEA 430.0750 Cumbernauld IO75xw 15/1/2002 01:06
GM0BRJ 145.2875 Kilsyth IO75xx 1/5/2002 17:55
GM0BRJ 430.0250 Kilsyth IO75xx 29/2/2004 14:38
GM0VPG 51.9200 Inverness IO77ul 20/6/2004 10:15
GM0VPG 434.4750 Inverness IO77ul 20/6/2004 10:20
G0AZX 145.2875 Paignton IO80fk 16/10/2003 18:01
G0AZX 430.0750 Paignton IO80fk 18/6/2003 17:10
M0KFW 430.0500 Exeter IO80fr 16/10/2003 18:02
M0KFW 434.4750 Exeter IO80fr 9/9/2003 17:23
G7OGG 430.0500 Yeovil IO80qw 5/4/2002 06:21
M0PKB 430.0250 Portland IO80sm 21/3/2004 11:29
M5MKW 145.3375 Wyke Regis IO80so 25/2/2004 15:59
G8IKP 430.0375 Weymouth IO80so 7/6/2003 19:28
M1PIK 434.5000 Weymouth IO80so 16/7/2002 18:12
M5MKW 434.5250 Wyke Regis IO80so 6/2/2004 22:38
G4LRV 430.0250 Marnhull IO80ux 29/3/2004 17:53
G7HIP 434.4750 Blandford Forum IO80wu 5/2/2004 19:55
GW4WOV 430.0250 Swansea IO81ap 17/5/2004 21:59
GW4WOV 434.5000 Swansea IO81ap 17/5/2004 22:01
GW0GVQ 430.0625 Barry IO81ij 16/7/2002 18:10
GW3WSU 431.0750 Barry IO81ik 6/7/2000 09:00
GW0GVQ 145.3375 Barry IO81ji 16/7/2002 18:07
GW0KIG 70.3875 Fairwater Cardiff IO81jl 6/2/2004 22:27
GW7UNJ 51.9100 Llanishen, Cardiff IO81jm 16/10/2002 17:54
GW7UNJ 430.0500 Llanishen, Cardiff IO81jm 16/10/2002 17:59
GW7UNJ 434.4750 Llanishen IO81jm 16/10/2003 18:03
GW6CUR 430.0750 Cardiff IO81km 7/6/2002 14:52
GW6CUR 434.5000 Cardiff IO81km 17/12/2002 10:19
GW6CUR 1,297.9250 Cardiff IO81km 12/2/2003 21:38
M0RGJ 430.0625 Bridgwater IO81md 25/2/2004 16:00
G4SZM 70.3875 Weston-Super-Mare IO81mh 12/2/2003 21:49
G4SZM 430.0250 Weston-Super-Mare IO81mh 17/12/2002 10:18
G4SZM 1,297.9500 Weston-Super-Mare IO81mh 12/2/2003 21:48
GW7SAB 145.2875 Newport IO81mo 18/4/2001 09:00
MW1CPU 431.0750 Newport IO81mo 29/10/2001 11:10
G6IZI 431.0750 Bridgwater IO81nc 27/9/2003 21:54
G6IZI 431.1500 Bridgwater IO81nc 27/9/2003 21:54
M0DWC 51.9300 Congresbury IO81oi 6/2/2004 22:26
M0SRF 51.9400 Bristol IO81rk 25/2/2004 15:58
G4OTJ 430.0750 Midsomer Norton IO81sg 2/9/2002 09:59
G4OTJ 434.5250 Midsomer Norton IO81sg 2/9/2002 09:59
G0WUR 434.5000 Frome IO81uf 19/11/2002 10:38
G6RTV 51.9500 Stonehouse IO81ur 26/9/2002 23:43
G6RTV 70.4125 Stonehouse IO81ur 5/2/2003 17:47
G6RTV 434.5250 Stonehouse, Glos IO81ur 19/11/2002 10:36
G6RTV 1,297.9000 Stonehouse IO81ur 5/2/2003 17:42
G8ZRO 430.0750 Kings Stanley, Stonehouse IO81us 2/10/2003 17:51
G8ZRO 434.4750 Kings Stanley, Stonehouse IO81us 7/10/2003 13:15
2E1IHM 51.9500 Telford IO82sp 30/9/2002 19:10
2E1IHM 145.3375 Brookside, Telford IO82sp 26/6/2002 09:35
2E1IHM 430.0750 Brookside, Telford IO82sp 7/6/2002 14:52
G0BAM 431.1750 Worcester IO82ue 28/11/2003 09:48
G1ZRN 145.3375 Stourport on Severn IO82ui 3/10/2004 20:48
G8PZT 51.9300 Kidderminster IO82uj 10/5/2003 17:37
G8PZT 430.0750 Kidderminster IO82uj 10/5/2003 17:39
G7PFT 430.0125 Norbury IO82ut 30/11/2003 08:44
G7PFT 431.0750 Norbury IO82ut 15/12/2003 18:08
G8PZT 434.5000 Kidderminster IO82vj 5/5/2004 11:27
G4CGB 145.2875 Kingswinford IO82vm 21/6/2001 09:45
G8NWS 430.0250 Kingswinford IO82vm 8/5/2002 15:45
G4CGB 431.1500 Kingswinford IO82vm 9/5/2001 12:35
G0TPZ 51.9400 Halesowen IO82wk 17/12/2002 10:18
M1WML 430.0500 Halesowen IO82wk 16/10/2002 17:59
G0TPZ 431.2250 Halesowen IO82wk 10/10/2001 10:06
M0BMN 70.4125 Wolverhampton IO82wn 12/2/2003 21:35
M0BMN 430.0625 Wolverhampton IO82wn 18/1/2003 08:21
M0VRR 1,297.9500 Wolverhampton IO82wo 28/9/2004 11:30
G8NAI 145.2875 Stoke On Trent IO82wx 30/4/2001 09:00
G8NAI 431.1500 Stoke On Trent IO82wx 9/5/2001 12:35
2E0FFH 145.3375 Rowley Regis IO82xl 4/10/2004 14:28
G4DPZ 430.0375 Halesowen IO82xl 16/10/2002 17:58
G8VPR 145.3375 Cannock IO82xr 30/3/2001 09:00
G8VPR 431.1250 Cannock IO82xr 1/1/2000 09:00
G8VPR 434.4750 Cannock IO82xr 30/3/2001 09:00
M1ELR 430.0500 Moreton IO83kj 17/4/2002 17:03
M1ELR 434.5000 Moreton IO83kj 20/3/2003 22:18
G0KGK 431.0750 Little Neston IO83lg 25/2/2004 16:00
M1EEV 430.0250 Bebington IO83li 17/12/2003 21:30
M1EIV 51.9200 Birkenhead IO83lj 25/2/2004 15:59
M1EIV 430.0250 Birkenhead IO83lj 17/12/2003 21:31
G1DFT 430.0375 Southport IO83lo 29/3/2004 17:54
G1UCI 431.1250 Southport IO83lo 27/9/2003 21:54
G8RDP 430.0500 Fleetwood IO83lv 19/2/2002 15:29
M1SWB 51.9100 Liverpool IO83mk 16/7/2002 18:01
G0RLT 145.2875 Southport IO83mp 10/10/2001 10:06
G0RLT 431.1500 Southport IO83mp 10/10/2001 10:06
G4EID 70.3875 Southport IO83mq 10/6/2003 22:49
G4EID 145.3375 Southport IO83mq 18/3/2002 17:17
G4EID 430.0625 Southport IO83mq 16/4/2003 17:06
G4EID 434.4750 Southport IO83mq 23/11/2002 17:08
2E1PGA 431.1750 Liverpool IO83ni 2/10/2003 17:51
G0MXW 1,297.9000 Liverpool IO83nk 5/5/2004 11:26
M0RDC 29.5300 Liverpool IO83nl 4/10/2004 12:36
M0RDC 29.5300 Liverpool IO83nl 4/10/2004 12:36
M0RDC 51.9500 Liverpool IO83nl 18/6/2003 17:08
M0RDC 145.2875 Liverpool IO83nl 30/4/2001 09:00
M0RDC 430.0750 Liverpool IO83nl 7/6/2002 14:53
M0RDC 1,297.9250 Liverpool IO83nl 14/1/2004 22:16
G0VXN 430.0125 Freckleton IO83ns 18/6/2003 17:09
G6VS 145.2875 Widnes IO83oi 20/2/2001 09:00
G0KEN 434.5250 Preston IO83oq 16/10/2002 18:03
G0NWE 51.9400 Runcorn IO83pi 4/2/2003 17:44
G0NWE 430.0125 Runcorn IO83pi 4/2/2003 17:45
G0TPT 430.0500 Wigan IO83pm 21/3/2004 11:32
2E1SAF 431.1500 Wigan IO83qm 15/12/2003 18:08
G7GOD 51.9100 Clayton Brook IO83qr 25/2/2003 18:30
G3VFP 431.1750 Preston IO83qr 17/1/2002 16:05
G7GOD 434.5000 Clayton Brook IO83qr 25/2/2003 18:33
G7GOD 1,297.9000 Clayton Brook IO83qr 25/2/2003 18:34
G6OSV 51.9300 Warrington IO83rj 30/9/2002 19:11
G6OSV 434.5250 Warrington IO83rj 8/5/2002 15:48
G4YYB 70.4125 Westhoughton IO83rn 5/2/2003 17:48
G4YYB 430.0250 Westhoughton IO83rn 18/1/2003 08:20
G6JSB 430.0250 Westhoughton IO83rn 20/3/2003 22:19
G4YYB 1,297.9500 Westhoughton IO83rn 5/2/2003 17:51
G0SPH 70.3875 Byley IO83sf 28/11/2003 09:55
G0SPH 145.3375 Byley IO83sf 21/12/2003 08:22
G0SPH 431.1250 Byley IO83sf 17/12/2003 21:31
G1LDC 431.0750 Northwich IO83sg 20/7/2000 09:00
G6LBQ 434.5250 Cadishead IO83sk 29/3/2004 17:54
G1ITV 51.9500 Bolton IO83sn 19/11/2002 10:44
G0SXC 51.9300 Whalley IO83st 4/10/2004 12:43
G0SXC 430.0750 Whalley IO83st 9/9/2003 17:22
G8AFC 430.0625 Flixton IO83tk 16/7/2002 18:11
G3KLB 434.4750 Flixton Manchester IO83tk 12/6/2002 17:05
G0KIZ 434.5000 Urmston, Manchester IO83tk 9/9/2003 17:24
G4ROE 434.5000 Radcliffe IO83tn 4/10/2004 12:49
2E0LMP 51.9100 Clitheroe IO83tu 4/10/2004 12:49
G4ERQ 51.9500 Alsager IO83uc 28/9/2004 11:31
G4ERQ 431.1750 Alsager IO83uc 28/9/2004 11:29
G6CRF 430.0750 Chorlton-cum-Hardy IO83uk 26/6/2002 09:36
M5GWH 430.0750 Stoke on Trent IO83va 17/12/2002 10:19
M5GWH 434.5000 Stoke on Trent IO83va 17/12/2002 10:20
M1DDO 430.0500 Styal, Wilmslow IO83vh 18/3/2002 17:20
G0TOG 145.3375 Crumpsall, Manchester IO83vm 24/1/2004 16:49
M1JAD 145.3375 Crumpsall, Manchester IO83vm 6/2/2004 22:31
G0TOG 431.1750 Crumpsall, Manchester IO83vm 24/1/2004 16:50
M1JAD 431.1750 Crumpsall, Manchester IO83vm 6/2/2004 22:17
G0TOG 1,297.9000 Crumpsall IO83vm 27/10/2003 19:15
G8UVE 29.6300 Burnley IO83vt 4/10/2004 19:32
G8UVE 51.9400 Burnley IO83vt 24/7/2002 20:58
G8UVE 70.3875 Burnley IO83vt 5/2/2003 17:47
G8UVE 145.2875 Burnley IO83vt 10/10/2001 10:06
G8UVE 430.0250 Burnley IO83vt 16/10/2002 17:57
G8UVE 431.2250 Burnley IO83vt 10/10/2001 10:06
G8UVE 434.5000 Burnley IO83vt 16/10/2002 18:03
G8UVE 1,297.9250 Burnley IO83vt 5/2/2003 17:51
G6TLR 51.9100 Stoke on Trent IO83wa 18/1/2003 08:19
G6TLR 434.5250 Stoke on Trent IO83wa 18/1/2003 08:22
G4HFG 145.2875 Oldham IO83wm 16/8/2001 12:34
G4HFG 431.0750 Oldham IO83wm 17/3/2000 09:00
M0NSI 430.0375 Stalybridge IO83xl 28/11/2003 09:53
G4ZPZ 431.1250 Dukinfield IO83xl 27/6/2000 09:00
G0PVR 431.1500 Stalybridge IO83xl 23/11/2000 09:00
G7MVO 51.9200 Ashton-under-Lyne IO83xm 25/2/2003 18:35
G3SNA 145.2875 Oldham IO83xm 28/11/2003 09:55
G3SNA 430.0125 Oldham IO83xm 20/3/2003 22:19
G3YRT 431.2000 Oldham IO83xm 10/10/2001 10:06
G7MVO 434.5250 Ashton-under-Lyne IO83xm 24/7/2002 21:02
G0MEJ 51.9500 Barrow-in-Furness IO84jc 25/2/2003 18:31
G0MEJ 70.4125 Barrow-in-Furness IO84jc 25/2/2003 18:32
G0MEJ 434.4750 Barrow-in-Furness IO84jc 16/4/2003 17:07
G6LKB 51.9200 Ulverston IO84ke 21/3/2004 11:30
G6LKB 430.0250 Ulverston IO84ke 21/3/2004 11:30
M5GUY 145.2875 Wigton IO84mr 12/6/2002 17:05
M5GUY 434.5000 Wigton IO84mr 26/6/2002 09:37
G8IRC 434.4750 Carlisle IO84nv 5/5/2004 11:27
G8IRC 1,297.9250 Carlisle IO84nv 5/5/2004 18:29
G6PHF 145.2875 Lancaster IO84oa 22/3/2002 14:13
G6PHF 431.0750 Lancaster IO84oa 22/3/2002 14:13
G0ISW 145.3375 Penrith IO84oq 16/11/2001 23:21
G0ISW 431.0750 Penrith IO84oq 18/10/2000 09:00
M1LCR 145.3375 Chester IO84vh 4/10/2004 12:35
MM1BHO 145.3375 Castle Douglas IO85ba 16/3/2001 09:00
MM1BHO 431.0750 Castle Douglas IO85ba 2/11/2000 09:00
GM4NAB 51.9300 Dumfries, Scotland IO85eb 10/6/2003 22:48
GM4NAB 430.0250 Dumfries, Scotland IO85eb 10/5/2003 17:38
MM1JWF 430.0625 Linlithgow IO85ex 19/11/2002 13:37
MM0DEC 430.0125 Livingston IO85fu 14/8/2002 10:49
GM7UJJ 430.0500 Edinburgh IO85iw 7/6/2002 14:51
MM0GEQ 145.2875 Edinburgh IO85jv 8/5/2002 15:46
GM1GEQ 430.0375 Edinburgh IO85jv 15/4/2002 00:26
GM7HHB 434.4750 Edinburgh IO85jw 16/7/2002 18:12
GM1PLY 51.9100 Edinburgh IO85kv 6/2/2004 22:25
GM1PLY 430.0750 Edinburgh IO85kv 26/9/2002 23:53
GM7LUN 70.4125 Clovenfords,Galashiels IO85no 10/6/2003 22:49
GM7LUN 145.3375 Clovenfords,Galashiels IO85no 6/2/2004 22:31
GM7LUN 430.0500 Clovenfords,Galashiels IO85no 7/6/2003 19:28
GM0VRP 145.2875 STIRLING IO86ac 16/10/2003 18:01
GM0VRP 430.0250 Stirling IO86ac 9/9/2003 17:21
GM0BWR 145.3375 Menstrie IO86bd 2/10/2004 12:53
GM0BWR 431.1250 Menstrie IO86bd 16/10/2003 18:03
MM5JDZ 434.5250 Crieff IO86bi 19/11/2002 10:36
GM0MZB 145.3375 Grangemouth IO86da 16/7/2002 18:09
GM0MZB 434.5000 Grangemouth IO86da 14/8/2002 10:50
GM6JDZ 431.2000 Perth IO86gj 18/3/2002 17:21
GM6JDZ 434.5250 Perth IO86gj 16/4/2003 17:07
MM1GDO 51.9500 Dundee IO86ml 28/5/2003 19:34
MM0TMG 145.3375 Dundee IO86ml 6/2/2004 22:31
MM0TMG 430.0125 Dundee IO86ml 6/2/2004 22:32
MM0DXE 430.0250 St. Monans IO86oe 27/11/2003 17:59
2M1DHG 434.5000 Lossiemouth IO87fp 29/3/2004 17:53
GM4YWQ 145.2875 Fochabers IO87ko 18/4/2001 09:00
GM0PYC 51.9100 Turriff, Aberdeenshire IO87sl 16/7/2002 18:02
GM0PYC 145.2875 Turriff, Aberdeenshire IO87sl 16/7/2002 18:06
GM0PYC 434.5000 Turriff, Aberdeenshire IO87sl 7/1/2004 22:19
G0SXC 29.6300 whalley IO89st 4/10/2004 14:54
G1GRB 430.0500 Bournemouth IO90br 27/9/2003 21:54
G1GRB 434.5000 Bournemouth IO90br 27/9/2003 21:54
G4HFQ 430.0750 New Milton IO90er 28/11/2003 09:48
G4FDX 1,297.9000 Brockenhurst IO90ft 9/9/2003 17:24
2E1IIC 51.9300 Southampton IO90iu 20/3/2003 22:20
2E1IIC 430.0500 Southampton IO90iu 18/1/2003 08:21
G4ANW 145.2875 Isle of Wight IO90jp 26/2/2001 09:00
G4ANW 434.5000 Isle of Wight IO90jp 26/2/2001 09:00
M0SRF 51.9300 Gosport IO90jt 3/10/2004 12:29
G4MWW 430.0375 Gosport IO90jt 12/2/2003 21:36
G0OPD 145.3375 Fareham IO90ju 27/2/2001 09:00
G0OPD 431.0750 Fareham IO90ju 22/5/2000 09:00
G0OPD 431.1000 Fareham IO90ju 22/5/2000 09:00
G0OPD 434.4750 Fareham IO90ju 27/2/2001 09:00
G7RPG 51.9400 Portsmouth IO90lt 12/2/2003 21:33
G7RPG 430.0250 Portsmouth IO90lt 18/6/2003 17:09
G7RPG 434.5250 Portsmouth IO90lt 10/5/2002 20:52
G0AFN 430.0500 Westergate IO90pu 12/4/2002 05:22
G0UQY 145.2875 Steyning IO90uv 3/10/2004 20:30
G0UQY 430.0250 Upper Beeding IO90uv 25/5/2004 12:40
G0KYX 145.3375 Burgess Hill IO90ww 25/2/2004 15:59
G0KYX 434.5250 Burgess Hill IO90ww 6/2/2004 22:38
M1EFY 51.9500 Swindon IO91co 17/5/2004 21:59
M1EFY 434.4750 Swindon IO91co 5/5/2004 11:27
G0AMO 145.2875 Andover IO91ff 18/8/2001 13:00
G4GUN 430.0500 Witney IO91gs 6/2/2004 22:32
G7TRJ 51.9100 Coventry IO91gv 15/10/2003 21:50
G7TRJ 70.4125 Coventry IO91gv 16/10/2003 18:00
G7TRJ 430.0250 Coventry IO91gv 15/10/2003 21:51
G6ORL 430.0500 Oakley Basingstoke IO91jg 27/9/2003 21:18
G1SSL 145.3375 Didcot IO91jo 6/2/2004 22:31
G1SSL 430.0750 Didcot IO91jo 5/2/2003 17:50
G4KNM 145.2875 Aynho, Banbury IO91jx 14/8/2002 10:49
M0NRG 145.2875 Tadley IO91ki 2/9/2002 09:57
G8SFR 430.0125 Aldermaston IO91ki 10/5/2003 17:38
G8SFR 430.0250 Aldermaston IO91ki 9/5/2003 15:16
G8SFR 430.0625 Aldermaston IO91ki 9/5/2003 15:16
2E0JSK 51.9100 Basingstoke IO91lg 2/10/2003 17:52
2E0JSK 430.0750 Basingstoke IO91lg 9/9/2003 17:22
G4FLY 434.4750 Reading IO91mk 6/2/2004 22:37
G8ROG 70.4125 Caversham, Reading IO91ml 9/7/2004 16:46
G8ROG 434.5250 Caversham, Reading IO91ml 14/7/2004 22:46
G4AFI 70.4125 Church Crookham IO91og 10/6/2003 22:49
G3XOP 434.5250 Aylesbury IO91ov 12/10/2003 21:32
G7KNK 145.2875 Camberley IO91ph 2/10/2004 20:17
G7KNK 430.0375 Camberley IO91ph 31/12/2003 08:11
M0HBK 430.0125 Ascot IO91qj 26/9/2002 23:44
G8SJP 70.2600 Amersham IO91qp 7/3/2002 16:38
G0VRV 145.2875 Amersham IO91qp 7/3/2002 16:27
G0RDI 430.0375 Amersham IO91qp 30/9/2004 14:56
G0VRV 434.5000 Amersham IO91qp 2/5/2002 07:46
G8SJP 1,297.9000 Amersham IO91qp 4/2/2003 17:43
G0RDI 29.6300 Amersham IO91qq 2/10/2004 09:59
G8SJP 51.9500 Amersham IO91qq 30/9/2004 14:45
G0VJI 29.5300 Chorleywood IO91rp 2/10/2004 09:54
G0VJI 51.9200 Chorleywood IO91rp 17/7/2002 18:12
M0LAC 51.9200 Chorleywood IO91rp 17/7/2002 18:13
G0VJI 145.3375 Chorleywood IO91rp 18/3/2002 17:17
G0VJI 430.0250 Chorleywood IO91rp 20/6/2004 10:25
M0LAC 430.0250 Chorleywood IO91rp 12/4/2002 05:22
G0VJI 434.5000 Chorleywood IO91rp 20/6/2004 10:26
G4CAO 145.3375 New Haw IO91sh 4/10/2004 20:02
G4CAO 434.5000 New Haw IO91sh 4/10/2004 20:02
M1CPM 145.3375 Walton on Thames IO91si 9/5/2001 12:35
M1CPM 434.4750 Walton on Thames IO91si 9/5/2001 13:51
G0DEO 1,297.9500 Feltham IO91sk 25/2/2004 16:00
G0MJW 145.3375 Didcot IO91so 3/10/2003 12:48
G8ASI 51.9100 Hemel Hempstead IO91sr 6/2/2004 22:26
G4SNT 430.0750 Twickenham IO91tk 18/3/2002 17:20
G6MNJ 430.0750 Pimlico IO91tr 11/10/2003 07:42
G6MNJ 434.5250 Pimlico IO91tr 16/10/2003 18:04
G0OXZ 430.0625 Epsom IO91ui 6/2/2004 22:33
G4HKS 145.3375 Ealing IO91um 10/5/2002 20:49
G7UCL 434.4750 Crawley IO91vc 18/6/2003 17:10
G4CDY 145.2875 Purley IO91wh 16/3/2001 09:00
G4CDY 430.0500 Purley IO91wh 9/12/2001 18:55
G3ZRR 29.5300 SOUTH CROYDON IO91wi 2/10/2004 11:14
G3ZRR 51.9100 South Croydon IO91wi 4/10/2004 12:43
G4FKK 51.9100 Carshalton IO91wi 19/11/2002 10:40
G4FKK 70.3875 Carshalton IO91wi 5/2/2003 17:47
G3ZRR 70.4125 SOUTH CROYDON IO91wi 2/10/2004 11:14
G3ZRR 145.3375 SOUTH CROYDON IO91wi 2/10/2004 11:14
M1MAS 145.3375 Purley IO91wi 21/6/2001 09:45
G4FKK 430.0250 Carshalton IO91wi 19/11/2002 10:47
G3ZRR 434.5250 SOUTH CROYDON IO91wi 2/10/2004 11:14
G3ZRR 1,297.9250 SOUTH CROYDON IO91wi 2/10/2004 11:14
G1UNL 430.0125 Highbury, London IO91wn 2/10/2003 17:52
M1ETN 70.4125 Winchmore Hill IO91wp 6/2/2004 22:30
M1ETN 430.0375 Winchmore Hill IO91wp 6/2/2004 22:32
M1ETN 1,297.9250 Winchmore Hill IO91wp 6/2/2004 22:39
M0TJB 434.5000 Chingford IO91xo 17/5/2004 21:57
G1CAY 430.0500 Hoddesdon IO91xs 12/4/2002 05:22
G4ZTM 430.0500 Birmingham IO92al 18/3/2002 17:20
G6UEU 51.9200 Walsall IO92ao 20/6/2004 10:24
G7VBX 145.2875 Bloxwich IO92ap 25/4/2001 00:00
G7VBX 145.3375 Bloxwich IO92ap 2/4/2001 17:05
G7WCB 430.0125 Walsall IO92ap 18/6/2003 17:11
G7VBX 431.0750 Bloxwich IO92ap 15/2/2001 09:00
G8PWE 1,297.9000 Walsall IO92ap 9/7/2004 16:49
G0JJO 430.0375 Rugeley IO92as 18/6/2003 17:10
G8AMD 431.1750 Sutton Coldfield IO92bn 9/5/2001 12:35
G0FSM 51.9300 Rugeley IO92br 4/2/2003 17:44
G4LCH 51.9200 Solihull IO92ck 6/2/2004 22:26
G1KEA 51.9400 Solihull IO92ck 29/3/2004 17:52
G1KEA 145.2875 Solihull IO92ck 3/10/2004 10:31
G4LCH 430.0750 Solihull IO92ck 5/5/2004 11:28
G4LCH 434.5250 Solihull IO92ck 6/2/2004 22:39
G4KQU 51.9200 Birmingham IO92cl 7/6/2003 19:56
M1KQU 51.9200 Birmingham IO92cl 9/9/2003 17:18
G4KQU 430.0750 Birmingham IO92cl 16/7/2002 18:11
M1KQU 430.0750 Birmingham IO92cl 9/9/2003 17:23
G4KQU 434.5250 Birmingham IO92cl 19/11/2002 13:40
M1KQU 434.5250 Birmingham IO92cl 9/9/2003 17:24
G4JBX 434.5000 Tamworth IO92do 27/9/2003 21:54
G4LZV 51.9500 Tamworth IO92dp 25/2/2003 18:31
G4LZV 430.0625 Tamworth IO92dp 25/2/2003 18:33
G6NHG 431.0750 Tamworth IO92eo 3/1/2004 15:41
G7SET 431.0750 Redditch IO92fe 6/2/2004 22:33
G3GRM 431.1750 Derby IO92fv 15/12/2003 18:02
G6ULX 70.3875 Coventry IO92gk 3/10/2003 21:03
M1AOA 70.3875 Derby IO92gw 28/11/2003 09:55
G7NPW 145.2875 DERBY IO92gw 16/10/2003 18:01
M1AOA 430.0250 Derby IO92gw 28/11/2003 09:49
G7NPW 431.1750 Derby IO92gw 16/10/2003 18:03
G7NPW 434.5250 Derby IO92gw 20/3/2003 22:17
M1DDI 51.9500 Blackwell IO92hc 8/10/2003 16:06
M1DDI 434.4750 Blackwell, nr Alfreton IO92hc 8/10/2003 16:07
G4JKQ 145.2875 Coalville IO92hq 27/9/2003 21:54
G4JKQ 431.1250 Coalville IO92hq 27/9/2003 21:54
G4JKQ 434.4750 Coalville IO92hq 27/9/2003 21:54
M1ATR 430.0125 Earl Shilton IO92in 20/3/2003 22:19
M1GMT 430.0625 Braunston IO92jh 18/3/2002 17:20
M1FJB 29.5300 Rugby IO92jj 2/10/2004 05:53
M1FJB 51.9300 Rugby IO92jj 2/10/2004 05:53
M1FJB 51.9300 Rugby IO92jj 6/2/2004 22:26
M1FJB 70.3875 Rugby IO92jj 2/10/2004 05:53
M1FJB 145.2875 Rugby IO92jj 2/10/2004 05:53
M1FJB 430.0125 Rugby IO92jj 2/10/2004 05:53
M1FJB 431.1500 Rugby IO92jj 6/2/2004 22:34
M1FJB 434.5250 Rugby IO92jj 2/10/2004 05:53
M1FJB 1,297.9500 Rugby IO92jj 6/2/2004 22:39
G7WFM 145.3375 Nottingham IO92jx 16/7/2002 18:10
M1BEY 431.1000 Aspley Nottingham IO92jx 6/2/2004 22:17
G8EWD 145.2875 Market Drayton IO92kn 30/4/2001 09:00
G8EWD 434.5250 Market Drayton IO92kn 9/5/2001 12:35
M0COQ 51.9400 Leicester IO92ko 6/2/2004 22:26
G8GNI 145.2875 Stony Stratford IO92nb 2/10/2004 11:27
G8GNI 430.0250 Stony Stratford IO92nb 22/7/2003 16:52
G8GNI 434.5000 Stony Stratford IO92nb 18/6/2003 17:11
M0LKB 51.9200 Northampton IO92ne 25/2/2004 15:58
M0LKB 145.3375 Northampton IO92ne 4/10/2004 17:09
M0LKB 434.5000 Northampton IO92ne 2/10/2004 17:24
G7PCT 430.0750 Melton Mowbray IO92ns 11/1/2002 14:23
G4UFS 434.4750 Milton Keynes IO92oa 16/2/2001 09:00
2E1BFH 51.9500 Wellingborough IO92ph 20/3/2003 22:20
2E1BFH 145.3375 Wellingborough IO92ph 16/10/2003 18:02
2E1BFH 434.5250 Wellingborough IO92ph 12/2/2003 21:37
G4ZPL 1,297.9000 Kettering IO92pj 23/3/2003 21:39
G0RDG 434.5250 Springfield, Milton Keynes IO92qb 20/7/2002 19:59
G4RIO 434.5250 Barkston IO92qx 9/9/2003 17:24
G6JQH 434.5250 Barkston IO92qx 9/9/2003 17:24
M1TLK 145.2875 Bedford IO92sd 2/9/2002 09:58
G6PRL 145.2875 Huntingdon IO92vh 18/8/2001 13:00
M1CNX 434.4750 Wyberton, Boston IO92xw 6/2/2004 22:38
2E0BEN 431.1500 Boston IO92xx 28/9/2004 11:29
G4CDZ 431.0750 High Peak IO93ah 8/2/2001 09:00
G3UGF 431.1500 Mytholmroyd IO93ar 18/3/2002 17:20
M0DIT 70.4125 Haworth, Keighley IO93au 5/2/2003 17:48
M0DIT 434.5000 Haworth, Keighley IO93au 20/12/2002 15:03
M0DIT 1,297.9000 Haworth, Keighley IO93au 5/2/2003 17:50
G8PUT 430.0750 Holmfirth IO93cn 24/7/2003 20:44
G4LLZ 51.9200 Huddersfield IO93co 14/8/2002 10:48
G4LLZ 145.2875 Huddersfield IO93co 16/7/2002 18:14
G4LLZ 430.0250 Huddersfield IO93co 10/5/2002 20:48
M1BGY 145.3375 Bradford IO93ds 16/8/2001 12:34
G4CUI 145.3375 Sheffield IO93fi 9/5/2001 12:35
G4CUI 431.1500 Sheffield IO93fi 10/10/2001 10:06
2E0CJT 51.9100 Barnsley IO93fm 20/6/2004 10:23
2E0CJT 430.0125 Barnsley IO93fm 20/6/2004 10:24
2E0CJT 1,297.9500 Barnsley IO93fm 20/6/2004 10:22
M1LOU 430.0500 Barnsley IO93fo 4/2/2003 17:47
G4GCP 51.9500 Wakefield IO93fr 2/9/2002 09:56
G4GCP 430.0375 Wakefield IO93fr 2/9/2002 09:58
G4GCP 434.5000 Wakefield IO93fr 2/9/2002 09:59
G6YHW 431.1750 Leeds IO93fs 27/9/2003 21:54
G0SCV 434.5250 Leeds IO93ft 10/5/2002 20:51
G1JUX 430.0375 Belper IO93ga 20/6/2004 10:20
G0MVC 145.2875 Dronfield IO93gh 23/3/2001 09:00
G6FWT 145.2875 Sheffield IO93gi 27/9/2003 21:54
G4OBF 431.2000 Sheffield IO93gi 16/8/2001 12:34
2E0TWS 51.9300 Sheffield IO93gj 17/12/2002 10:21
M1ERS 51.9300 Sheffield IO93gk 26/7/2002 08:06
M1ERS 70.3875 Sheffield IO93gk 5/2/2003 17:47
M1ERS 145.2875 Sheffield IO93gk 30/3/2001 09:00
M1ERS 430.0375 Sheffield IO93gk 4/10/2004 12:20
M1ERS 434.4750 Sheffield IO93gk 30/3/2001 09:00
M1ERS 1,297.9250 Sheffield IO93gk 5/2/2003 17:51
M1GHT 51.9500 Somercotes, Alfreton IO93hb 10/6/2003 22:48
M1GHT 430.0625 Somercotes, Alfreton IO93hb 19/11/2002 13:38
M1GHT 1,297.9000 Somercotes, Alfreton IO93hb 10/6/2003 22:50
M1ATV 431.1500 Alfreton IO93hc 11/9/2000 09:00
G8NSD 51.9400 North Wingfield IO93he 17/7/2002 18:11
G8NSD 70.4125 North Wingfield IO93he 5/2/2003 17:48
G8NSD 145.3375 Chesterfield IO93he 16/8/2001 12:34
G8NSD 430.0500 North Wingfield IO93he 17/12/2003 21:23
G8NSD 431.1250 Chesterfield. IO93he 30/4/2001 09:00
G6IBQ 51.9200 Brimington, Chesterfield IO93hf 18/1/2003 08:20
G6IBQ 70.4125 Chesterfield IO93hf 5/2/2003 17:48
2E1HTX 431.0750 Rotherham IO93hk 27/6/2001 19:13
2E1HTX 431.1250 Rotherham IO93hk 27/6/2001 19:13
G1SLE 51.9100 Bolsover IO93if 16/10/2002 17:55
G1SLE 70.2600 Bolsover IO93if 16/10/2002 17:55
G1SLE 430.0250 Bolsover IO93if 16/10/2002 17:57
G1SLE 434.4750 Bolsover IO93if 16/10/2002 18:02
G4NJI 145.2875 Rotherham IO93ij 6/3/2001 09:00
G4NJI 431.0750 Rotherham IO93ij 23/2/2000 09:00
G4NJI 434.5250 Rotherham IO93ij 6/3/2001 09:00
G4WFW 431.0750 Rotherham IO93ik 18/4/2000 09:00
G4FBA 51.9400 Knottingley IO93ir 10/6/2003 22:48
G4FBA 430.0250 Knottingley IO93ir 18/6/2003 17:09
G3MZF 145.3375 Sherburn in Elmet IO93is 18/8/2001 13:00
G6GUW 145.3375 Stillington IO93iv 3/10/2003 18:27
G4WPW 434.5000 Mansfield Woodhouse IO93je 16/4/2002 18:08
G3ZHI 145.2875 Maltby IO93jk 6/3/2001 09:00
G4BVV 145.3375 Maltby IO93jk 18/8/2001 13:00
G3ZHI 431.0750 Maltby IO93jk 16/2/2001 09:00
G4BVV 431.2250 Maltby IO93jk 18/8/2001 13:00
G3ZHI 434.5000 Maltby IO93jk 6/3/2001 09:00
G0HLJ 434.4750 Doncaster IO93jm 26/6/2002 09:37
M1CBH 430.0125 Mansfield IO93kd 4/2/2003 17:46
G1EIV 431.1250 Mansfield IO93kd 14/8/2000 09:00
G7KEK 430.0625 Doncaster IO93ll 17/12/2003 21:31
G0VIK 430.0750 Doncaster IO93ll 18/1/2003 08:22
G0CAS 431.1750 Doncaster IO93lm 16/10/2003 18:03
G4YPV 430.0125 Selby IO93lr 7/6/2003 19:27
G0LIW 145.2875 Pocklington IO93ow 13/4/2002 21:48
G7RUP 51.9500 Lincoln IO93re 20/3/2003 22:19
G7RUP 430.0250 Lincoln IO93re 25/2/2003 18:32
G7RUP 145.2875 Lincoln IO93rf 7/6/2002 14:49
G4DWP 29.5300 REEPHAM, LINCOLN IO93sg 2/10/2004 07:07
G4DWP 70.3875 Lincoln IO93sg 28/9/2004 11:31
G4DWP 145.3375 REEPHAM, LINCOLN IO93sg 2/10/2004 07:07
G4DWP 430.0625 Lincoln IO93sg 28/9/2004 11:30
G0AOJ 434.5000 Bonby, Brigg IO93sn 21/3/2004 11:32
G8MGE 430.0750 Beverley IO93su 30/9/2002 19:10
M1SJX 430.0625 Hull IO93tr 18/1/2003 08:21
G4WTC 145.2875 Hull IO93ts 7/6/2002 14:49
G8VHG 145.3375 Kingston-upon-Hull IO93ts 7/6/2002 14:50
G8VHG 430.0500 Kingston-upon-Hull IO93ts 7/6/2002 14:52
G4WTC 434.4750 Hull IO93ts 7/6/2002 14:54
2E1XXX 430.0125 Hull IO93us 20/3/2003 22:19
G7PLS 430.0250 Immingham IO93vo 22/7/2003 16:52
G7WIZ 430.0750 Grimsby IO93wn 20/12/2002 15:02
G7EOG 434.5000 Grimsby IO93wn 19/11/2002 10:37
G4IPE 70.4125 Louth IO93xi 9/9/2003 17:19
G4IPE 145.3375 Louth IO93xi 26/6/2002 09:36
2E0IPE 434.5250 Louth IO93xi 5/5/2004 11:26
G4IPE 434.5250 Louth IO93xi 5/5/2004 11:26
M1CDQ 145.2875 Grimsby IO93xn 6/3/2001 09:00
G1LVN 29.5300 Stocksfield IO94bw 1/10/2004 22:59
G1LVN 70.3875 Stocksfield IO94bw 12/2/2003 21:34
G1LVN 145.2875 Stocksfield IO94bw 1/10/2004 22:59
G1LVN 430.0250 Stocksfield IO94bw 26/9/2002 23:44
2E1GUN 145.3375 Middleton Tyas IO94ek 12/6/2002 17:05
G4FZN 145.3375 Middleton Tyas IO94ek 10/6/2002 14:25
G8HQW 145.3375 Middleton Tyas IO94ek 10/6/2002 14:26
G4FZN 431.2000 Middleton Tyas IO94ek 18/8/2001 13:00
G8HQW 431.2000 Middleton Tyas IO94ek 18/8/2001 13:00
2E1GUN 434.5000 Middleton Tyas IO94ek 12/6/2002 17:06
MOTWT 145.2875 Spennymoor IO94er 4/10/2004 12:45
M0TWT 430.0375 Spennymoor IO94er 5/5/2004 11:28
G0DRJ 434.5250 Durham IO94et 21/3/2004 11:33
G0GJQ 51.9300 Felling, Gateshead IO94fw 19/11/2002 10:42
G0GJQ 430.0500 Felling, Gateshead IO94fw 19/11/2002 10:49
G3SZG 145.2875 Knaresborough IO94ga 27/6/2001 19:13
G4EKM 430.0125 Sunderland IO94gu 18/6/2003 19:23
M1FNE 51.9500 Jarrow IO94gx 19/11/2002 10:45
M1FNE 145.3375 Jarrow IO94gx 16/10/2003 18:02
M1FNE 430.0625 Jarrow IO94gx 16/10/2002 18:00
G7KBZ 431.0750 Easingwold IO94jc 28/11/2003 09:48
G7KBZ 434.4750 Easingwold IO94jc 7/11/2003 12:44
G1JKE 434.5250 Easingwold IO94jc 28/9/2004 11:29
G0AOO 145.2875 Middlesbrough IO94jm 5/10/2003 15:10
G0JQO 430.0500 Hartlepool IO94jp 27/9/2003 21:54
G0JQO 434.5000 Hartlepool IO94jp 27/9/2003 21:54
2E1EDB 430.0750 Gateshead IO94jw 19/11/2002 13:39
M1CDU 145.3375 Wooler, Northumberland IO95an 17/12/2002 10:18
G0PWE 51.9100 Ashington IO95fe 4/2/2003 17:44
G4VYX 145.2875 Ashington IO95fe 19/9/2001 15:15
G0PWE 431.1750 Ashington IO95fe 15/12/2003 18:02
G4VYX 434.4750 Ashington IO95fe 12/6/2002 17:06
G0PWE 434.5250 Ashington IO95fe 10/6/2003 23:34
2E1LRE 145.2875 Eastbourne JO00dt 6/2/2004 22:30
M0LRE 145.3375 Eastbourne JO00dt 2/10/2004 08:04
M0LRE 430.0250 Eastbourne JO00dt 2/10/2004 08:04
2E1LRE 434.5000 Eastbourne JO00dt 10/5/2003 17:40
G0WYG 29.5300 bromley JO01ak 2/10/2004 16:10
G0WYG 29.6300 bromley JO01ak 2/10/2004 16:49
G0WYG 51.9400 Bromley JO01ak 16/4/2003 17:05
G0WYG 434.4750 Bromley JO01ak 9/11/2002 13:28
G7WIR 51.9300 Orpington JO01bj 19/11/2002 10:43
G7WIR 430.0250 Orpington JO01bj 16/10/2002 17:57
G4EGU 145.3375 ERITH JO01cl 4/10/2004 12:32
G4EGU 434.5250 Erith JO01cl 27/9/2003 21:54
G4IQE 430.0375 Hornchurch JO01cn 16/4/2003 17:06
G0APM 51.9100 Aveley JO01dl 19/7/2002 00:05
G4BFS 430.0625 Ockendon JO01dm 9/9/2003 17:22
G0APM 430.0750 Aveley JO01dn 7/6/2002 14:53
G6CKK 51.9500 Rochester JO01fj 9/9/2003 17:18
G6CKK 145.2875 Rochester JO01fj 16/10/2003 18:01
G6CKK 430.0500 Rochester JO01fj 9/9/2003 17:22
G6CKK 434.5000 Rochester JO01fj 9/9/2003 17:24
G0NGG 145.2875 Stanford-le-Hope JO01fm 27/9/2003 21:54
G0NGG 434.5250 Stanford-le-Hope JO01fm 26/3/2001 09:00
M0PZT 51.9200 Chelmsford JO01fs 18/1/2003 08:20
M0PZT 430.0250 Chelmsford JO01fs 18/1/2003 08:21
M0CSH 434.4750 Nr Chatham JO01gi 16/2/2001 09:00
M1DOZ 145.3375 Wickford JO01go 4/4/2002 13:14
M1DOZ 430.0125 Wickford JO01go 1/5/2002 17:54
G4DVJ 430.0500 Westcliff on Sea JO01im 10/6/2003 22:50
M0ELS 430.0750 Faversham JO01kh 16/4/2003 17:06
M0EXE 430.0500 Colchester JO01ku 10/5/2002 20:48
2E1EHM 145.3375 Canterbury JO01ng 7/11/2003 12:44
2E1EHM 430.0250 Canterbury JO01ng 16/10/2003 18:02
G8PUO 51.9500 Herne Bay JO01ni 2/9/2002 09:56
G8PUO 70.3875 Herne Bay JO01ni 12/2/2003 21:34
G8PUO 430.0375 Herne Bay JO01ni 16/10/2002 17:58
G8PUO 434.4750 Herne Bay JO01ni 19/11/2002 10:38
G8PUO 1,297.9000 Herne Bay JO01ni 12/2/2003 21:38
G3YCV 145.2875 Ramsgate JO01qi 30/3/2001 09:00
G3YCV 434.5000 Ramsgate JO01qi 30/3/2001 09:00
G8YNL 145.2875 Bishops Stortford JO01uv 16/8/2001 12:34
G8YNL 434.5250 Bishops Stortford JO01uv 16/8/2001 12:34
G0ANV 51.9300 Cambridge JO02bf 17/7/2002 18:11
G0ANV 70.3875 Cambridge JO02bf 5/5/2004 11:29
G0ANV 145.2875 Girton, Cambridge JO02bf 26/6/2002 09:35
G0ANV 430.0125 Cambridge JO02bf 7/4/2002 09:41
G1DAZ 430.0125 Girton Cambridge JO02bf 5/5/2004 08:01
G0AYE 430.0750 Girton, Cambridge JO02bf 27/9/2003 21:54
2E1KLP 51.9400 Kings Lynn JO02es 17/5/2004 21:58
2E1KLP 145.3375 kings lynn JO02es 3/10/2004 00:07
2E1KLP 430.0750 Kings Lynn JO02es 17/5/2004 22:00
G1SCQ 434.5000 Kings Lynn JO02fv 22/7/2003 16:52
2E1EBX 430.0500 Hunstanton JO02fw 9/9/2003 17:22
G0WHP 51.9100 Litcham JO02jr 22/7/2003 16:51
G0WHP 430.0125 Litcham JO02jr 22/7/2003 16:51
G0WHP 434.4750 Litcham JO02jr 22/7/2003 16:52
G0LGJ 434.5250 Scarning, Dereham JO02lq 22/7/2003 16:52
G7DNT 430.0125 Ipswich JO02oa 20/6/2004 10:24
M1CVA 434.5250 Debenham JO02of 30/4/2001 09:00
G8SAU 434.5250 Sheringham JO02ow 7/11/2003 12:45
G4LDZ 70.3875 Norwich JO02pp 9/9/2003 17:19
G4LDZ 145.2875 Norwich JO02pp 7/11/2003 12:43
G4LDZ 430.0750 Norwich JO02pp 16/9/2003 20:01
G4IFD 51.9100 Knodishall,Saxmundham JO02se 5/5/2004 11:29
G4IFD 430.0750 Saxmundham JO02se 5/5/2004 11:28
G4IFD 1,297.9500 Saxmundham JO02se 5/5/2004 18:29
G1ZQC 51.9500 Boston JO03cb 6/2/2004 22:27
G1ZQC 145.2875 Friskney Boston JO03cb 21/3/2004 11:31
G8LXI 431.1750 Spilsby JO03cc 15/12/2003 18:02
M1TWO 145.2875 Beccles JO03ti 22/2/2004 00:20
Note that the above represents the list for frequencies for which a
gateway has clearance.
Having clearance does not guarantee that the gateway is operational on
any given frequency
(or at all).



Site created and maintained by ***@dcc.rsgb.org
The information contained within is deemed to be accurate at the time
of writing.
©2001 - 2003

[Gareth (G1LVN)]

"rr" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:***@news.btinternet.com...
>
yes well done rr, tom, ken baker or whatever you are calling your self this
minute (Ian G4ZPZ perhaps?)

a URL would have done - e.g.
http://www.dcc.rsgb.org/ShowGates.asp?call=ALL

BTW lovely bit of coding around GB3PZ audio Streaming, I just had to nick it
;-)

What do you use for the encoding? Is it on the your own server or does
someone else host it? I'd like to do the same for eQSO.
--
http://www.g1lvn.org.uk
my other sig is a Ferrari

[Gareth (G1LVN)]

"Gareth (G1LVN)" <***@MYCALLSIGN.org.uk> wrote in message
news:ck12cs$d3u$***@sparta.btinternet.com...

> BTW lovely bit of coding around GB3PZ audio Streaming, I just had to nick
it
> ;-)
>
> What do you use for the encoding? Is it on the your own server or does
> someone else host it? I'd like to do the same for eQSO.

It's alright I've found it - 82.68.213.230

[KW]

"rr" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:***@news.btinternet.com...
> ALL Gateway Details
> (Note that entries shown in green have passed through Frequency
> Coordination and are with RA for licensing.
> Entries shown in red are new applications, pending Frequency
> Coordination. Gateways which we have been advised are dormant are
> listed in grey italics.

<Snipped from the comprehensive listing>
<2E0TWS 51.9300 Sheffield IO93gj 17/12/2002 10:21
<M1ERS 51.9300 Sheffield IO93gk 26/7/2002 08:06

Without some serious "time management" this would show some deficiencies in
the frequency selection.

Fortunatley M1ERS says (on QRZ.COM) "A Good friend of mine Trevor's Call is
2E0TWS", well he would have to be!

G1ITV

[Gareth (G1LVN)]

"KW" <***@MTLworld.com> wrote in message
news:SCV8d.303$***@newsfe3-win.ntli.net...

See also:

2E1GUN 145.3375 Middleton Tyas IO94ek 12/6/2002 17:05
G4FZN 145.3375 Middleton Tyas IO94ek 10/6/2002 14:25
G8HQW 145.3375 Middleton Tyas IO94ek 10/6/2002 14:26

They all seem to exist quite happily - happy family perhaps? (happy except
for having to fork out £36 a year for NoV's)


--
http://www.g1lvn.org.uk
my other sig is a Ferrari

[KW]

"Gareth (G1LVN)" <***@MYCALLSIGN.org.uk> wrote in message
news:ck1i5e$bkv$***@titan.btinternet.com...
>
> "KW" <***@MTLworld.com> wrote in message
> news:SCV8d.303$***@newsfe3-win.ntli.net...
>
> See also:
>
> 2E1GUN 145.3375 Middleton Tyas IO94ek 12/6/2002 17:05
> G4FZN 145.3375 Middleton Tyas IO94ek 10/6/2002 14:25
> G8HQW 145.3375 Middleton Tyas IO94ek 10/6/2002 14:26
>
> They all seem to exist quite happily - happy family perhaps? (happy except
> for having to fork out £36 a year for NoV's)

Same link init? More people to monitor = More time "On Air"


G1ITV

[Paul B]

M1ERS hmm isn't that the man with GB3TT (ATV repeater) that can't be
bothered to but it on air even though it's cleared and most of the time his
nodes are off line as well.

pffft

[Nick]

- And on Wed, 6 Oct 2004 15:06:30 +0000 (UTC), it was spake thus in <***@news.btinternet.com> said in message ***@hotmail.com (rr):

> Callsign Freq Location Locator Last Updated

<snip>

Anyone point me the way to a way of calculating - in MS Excel - the Lat/Long
from a Locator Square ?

MTIA
--
7 3 for now, Nick G7COC
g7coc at
www.whelan.me.uk
Also nickw7coc on
Yahoo Messenger
& on MSN Messenger
& www.skype.com !

[KW]

"Nick" <***@my-website.net> wrote in message
news:***@4ax.com...
> - And on Wed, 6 Oct 2004 15:06:30 +0000 (UTC), it was spake thus in
<***@news.btinternet.com> said in message ***@hotmail.com
(rr):
>
> > Callsign Freq Location Locator Last Updated
>
> <snip>
>
> Anyone point me the way to a way of calculating - in MS Excel - the
Lat/Long
> from a Locator Square ?

It's not possible

G1ITV

[New M3]

"KW" <***@MTLworld.com> wrote in message
news:ZHY8d.360$***@newsfe3-win.ntli.net...
>
> "Nick" <***@my-website.net> wrote in message
> news:***@4ax.com...
> > - And on Wed, 6 Oct 2004 15:06:30 +0000 (UTC), it was spake thus in
> <***@news.btinternet.com> said in message ***@hotmail.com
> (rr):
> >
> > > Callsign Freq Location Locator Last Updated
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > Anyone point me the way to a way of calculating - in MS Excel - the
> Lat/Long
> > from a Locator Square ?
>
> It's not possible
>



How do you figure that out? There are LOTS of sites that do this calculation
and my Garmin GPS does a lat/long to Maidenhead conversion.

Try a look on Google with Maidenhead Locator

D.

[KW]

"New M3" <***@here.com> wrote in message
news:aJZ8d.830$***@newsfe1-win.ntli.net...
>
> "KW" <***@MTLworld.com> wrote in message
> news:ZHY8d.360$***@newsfe3-win.ntli.net...
> >
> > "Nick" <***@my-website.net> wrote in message
> > news:***@4ax.com...
> > > - And on Wed, 6 Oct 2004 15:06:30 +0000 (UTC), it was spake thus in
> > <***@news.btinternet.com> said in message ***@hotmail.com
> > (rr):
> > >
> > > > Callsign Freq Location Locator Last Updated
> > >
> > > <snip>
> > >
> > > Anyone point me the way to a way of calculating - in MS Excel - the
> > Lat/Long
> > > from a Locator Square ?
> >
> > It's not possible
> >
>
>
>
> How do you figure that out? There are LOTS of sites that do this
calculation
> and my Garmin GPS does a lat/long to Maidenhead conversion.

I figure tht out because a locator decribes an AREA and a "Lat/Long"
describes a point.
You may have many lat/longs within a Locator.

G1ITV

[Brian Reay]

"KW" <***@MTLworld.com> wrote in message
news:hP49d.75$***@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...
> > How do you figure that out? There are LOTS of sites that do this
> calculation
> > and my Garmin GPS does a lat/long to Maidenhead conversion.
>
> I figure tht out because a locator decribes an AREA and a "Lat/Long"
> describes a point.
> You may have many lat/longs within a Locator.
>

In that case, standard practice is to use a reference area with in the
'square', often the centre or the "lower left" corner. The technique is
widely used- grid conversions, DTED etc etc.

--
Brian Reay
www.g8osn.org.uk
www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk
FP#898

[Gareth (G1LVN)]

"Brian Reay" <brian.reay@(spamstopper)bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:***@uni-berlin.de...
> "KW" <***@MTLworld.com> wrote in message

Just checked

http://www.amsat.org/amsat/toys/gridconv.html

Happens, I was at the centre of my square at the weekend, picking
blackberrys with the wife and kids. Quite a walk from the QTH. Couple of
Youths on motor bikes asked if It was OK for them to ride - they thought I
was a copper for some reason, must have been the scanner on my jacket tuned
to GB3BT.


--
http://www.g1lvn.org.uk
my other sig is a Ferrari

[KW]

"Brian Reay" <brian.reay@(spamstopper)bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:***@uni-berlin.de...
> "KW" <***@MTLworld.com> wrote in message
> news:hP49d.75$***@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...
> > > How do you figure that out? There are LOTS of sites that do this
> > calculation
> > > and my Garmin GPS does a lat/long to Maidenhead conversion.
> >
> > I figure tht out because a locator decribes an AREA and a "Lat/Long"
> > describes a point.
> > You may have many lat/longs within a Locator.
> >
>
> In that case, standard practice is to use a reference area with in the
> 'square', often the centre or the "lower left" corner. The technique is
> widely used- grid conversions, DTED etc etc.

I'm afraid that "standard practice" in no way translates to correct
procedure.

G1ITV

[Andy Cowley]

KW wrote:
> "New M3" <***@here.com> wrote in message
> news:aJZ8d.830$***@newsfe1-win.ntli.net...
>
>>"KW" <***@MTLworld.com> wrote in message
>>news:ZHY8d.360$***@newsfe3-win.ntli.net...
>>
>>>"Nick" <***@my-website.net> wrote in message
>>>news:***@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>>- And on Wed, 6 Oct 2004 15:06:30 +0000 (UTC), it was spake thus in
>>>
>>><***@news.btinternet.com> said in message ***@hotmail.com
>>>(rr):
>>>
>>>>>Callsign Freq Location Locator Last Updated
>>>>
>>>><snip>
>>>>
>>>>Anyone point me the way to a way of calculating - in MS Excel - the
>>>
>>>Lat/Long
>>>
>>>>from a Locator Square ?
>>>
>>>It's not possible
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>How do you figure that out? There are LOTS of sites that do this
>
> calculation
>
>>and my Garmin GPS does a lat/long to Maidenhead conversion.
>
>
> I figure tht out because a locator decribes an AREA and a "Lat/Long"
> describes a point.
> You may have many lat/longs within a Locator.
>
> G1ITV
>
>
That is an accuracy question, not an impossibility. A locator might
just as well be presumed to describe the centroid of the square, with
a locator having an accuracy of +/- half the square dimension in each
direction. A Lat/Long doesn't actually describe a point unless you
give it to an infinite accuracy. When given otherwise it has an error
and therefore describes a square (a spherical trapeziod if you really
want to be picky). Your distinction is not real and the transformation
is certainly possible. Calculating the error function is a little more
challenging but not impossible. Neither is anywhere near as complex as
converting beween Lat/Long and O.S. grid reference.

vy 73

Andy, M1EBV

[KW]

"Andy Cowley" <***@uwe.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:***@bath.ac.uk...
> KW wrote:
> > "New M3" <***@here.com> wrote in message
> > news:aJZ8d.830$***@newsfe1-win.ntli.net...
> >
> >>"KW" <***@MTLworld.com> wrote in message
> >>news:ZHY8d.360$***@newsfe3-win.ntli.net...
> >>
> >>>"Nick" <***@my-website.net> wrote in message
> >>>news:***@4ax.com...
> >>>
> >>>>- And on Wed, 6 Oct 2004 15:06:30 +0000 (UTC), it was spake thus in
> >>>
> >>><***@news.btinternet.com> said in message ***@hotmail.com
> >>>(rr):
> >>>
> >>>>>Callsign Freq Location Locator Last Updated
> >>>>
> >>>><snip>
> >>>>
> >>>>Anyone point me the way to a way of calculating - in MS Excel - the
> >>>
> >>>Lat/Long
> >>>
> >>>>from a Locator Square ?
> >>>
> >>>It's not possible
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>How do you figure that out? There are LOTS of sites that do this
> >
> > calculation
> >
> >>and my Garmin GPS does a lat/long to Maidenhead conversion.
> >
> >
> > I figure tht out because a locator decribes an AREA and a "Lat/Long"
> > describes a point.
> > You may have many lat/longs within a Locator.
> >
> > G1ITV
> >
> >
> That is an accuracy question, not an impossibility. A locator might
> just as well be presumed to describe the centroid of the square, with
> a locator having an accuracy of +/- half the square dimension in each
> direction. A Lat/Long doesn't actually describe a point unless you
> give it to an infinite accuracy. When given otherwise it has an error
> and therefore describes a square (a spherical trapeziod if you really
> want to be picky). Your distinction is not real and the transformation
> is certainly possible. Calculating the error function is a little more
> challenging but not impossible. Neither is anywhere near as complex as
> converting beween Lat/Long and O.S. grid reference.

I appreciate you train of thought but (the magic word), I have a locator of
IO83ro, from this only, there is no way of telling that I am in Broomfield
Road.
Unfortunately we cannot use +/- half a square due to the fact that the
"Areas" are not square and are narrower and more tapered as you go North or
South of the Equator. This is of course the main reason for the difficulty
of trying to reason between the OS system which is based on Square overlays
and the Spheriodal concept of the Lat/Long system.

G1ITV.

[Andy Cowley]

KW wrote:
> "Andy Cowley" <***@uwe.ac.uk> wrote in message
> news:***@bath.ac.uk...

>>That is an accuracy question, not an impossibility. A locator might
>>just as well be presumed to describe the centroid of the square, with
>>a locator having an accuracy of +/- half the square dimension in each
>>direction. A Lat/Long doesn't actually describe a point unless you
>>give it to an infinite accuracy. When given otherwise it has an error
>>and therefore describes a square (a spherical trapeziod if you really
>>want to be picky). Your distinction is not real and the transformation
>>is certainly possible. Calculating the error function is a little more
>>challenging but not impossible. Neither is anywhere near as complex as
>>converting beween Lat/Long and O.S. grid reference.
>
>
> I appreciate you train of thought but (the magic word), I have a locator of
> IO83ro, from this only, there is no way of telling that I am in Broomfield
> Road.
> Unfortunately we cannot use +/- half a square due to the fact that the
> "Areas" are not square and are narrower and more tapered as you go North or
> South of the Equator. This is of course the main reason for the difficulty
> of trying to reason between the OS system which is based on Square overlays
> and the Spheriodal concept of the Lat/Long system.
>

As I said "a spherical trapeziod if you really want to be picky". You are
basically complaining that the information given by the locator you have
quoted (not the whole story of course, but you neatly ignored that) is not
as accurate as you wish. It is of course much more accurate than the
perfectly valid Lat/Long equivalent 54 N, 3 W which includes a little more
than Broomfield Road or even Horwich or Bolton. The online calculator I am
using - http://www.amsat.org/cgi-bin/gridconv - gives 53 36" 15' N, 2 32" 30' W
but of course that is still not accurate to the nearest centimetre. In fact
the Lat/Long given specifies an _area_ ("a spherical trapeziod if you really
want to be picky") which is +/- 1/2 second around the position given. You seem
completely unable to grasp the simple fact that the two systems are merely
different ways of encoding identical information and are therefore easily
converted one to another. Your idea that one specifies an area and the other
a point is just plain wrong. Unless your Lat/Long specifies position to an
error of less than the Planck length, it specifies an area too.

There is no need for any geometric transform when converting between Maidenhead
Locator and Lat/Long, The Maidenhead Locator being exactly based on Lat/Long
and introduced for convenience and improved readability when sending such
information via an unreliable or noisy channel such as Amateur radio.


vy 73

Andy, M1EBV

[Trevor Day]

In message <***@bath.ac.uk>, Andy Cowley <***@uwe.ac.uk>
writes
Snip
>As I said "a spherical trapeziod if you really want to be picky". You are
>basically complaining that the information given by the locator you have
>quoted (not the whole story of course, but you neatly ignored that) is not
>as accurate as you wish. It is of course much more accurate than the
>perfectly valid Lat/Long equivalent 54 N, 3 W which includes a little more
>than Broomfield Road or even Horwich or Bolton. The online calculator I am
>using - http://www.amsat.org/cgi-bin/gridconv - gives 53 36" 15' N, 2 32" 30' W
>but of course that is still not accurate to the nearest centimetre. In fact
>the Lat/Long given specifies an _area_ ("a spherical trapeziod if you really
>want to be picky") which is +/- 1/2 second around the position given. You seem
>completely unable to grasp the simple fact that the two systems are merely
>different ways of encoding identical information and are therefore easily
>converted one to another. Your idea that one specifies an area and the other
>a point is just plain wrong. Unless your Lat/Long specifies position to an
>error of less than the Planck length, it specifies an area too.
>
>There is no need for any geometric transform when converting between Maidenhead
>Locator and Lat/Long, The Maidenhead Locator being exactly based on Lat/Long
>and introduced for convenience and improved readability when sending such
>information via an unreliable or noisy channel such as Amateur radio.
>
>
>vy 73
>
>Andy, M1EBV

Forgive me for breaking in, but I am also a bit confused about your
statement that Lat/Long is not a point measurement. AFAICS any position
given as Lat/Long defines a precise point. The point might not be the
one you want to define but is not 54N 3W just as much a point as
54 32' 55"N 3 46' 08"W ? Changing the seconds to, for example,
55.357542' and 08.862463' doesn't make the position any more accurate,
it just shifts it by a small increment.

From my simple way of looking at this, if I have an OS Map and use it to
locate either of the above positions, then I can happily place a pin in
the map at the point given. Any inaccuracies from here on are down to
the Ordnance Survey. If this is incorrect I'd be interested to know
why.

Ta! :-)

Trev G3ZYY
--
Trevor Day
SIP: ***@voiptalk.org

[Jock.]

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:16:24 GMT, Trevor Day <***@secornwall.removethis.com> wrote:

> From my simple way of looking at this, if I have an OS Map and use it to
>locate either of the above positions, then I can happily place a pin in
>the map at the point given. Any inaccuracies from here on are down to
>the Ordnance Survey. If this is incorrect I'd be interested to know
>why.

Not exactly easy to measure lat/long on an OS map!

--

Jock.

Women should not be enlightened or educated in any
way. They should, in fact, be segregated as they are
the cause of hideous and involuntary erections in
holy men.
- Augustine (attributed: source unknown)

[KW]

"Jock." <***@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:***@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:16:24 GMT, Trevor Day
<***@secornwall.removethis.com> wrote:
>
> > From my simple way of looking at this, if I have an OS Map and use it to
> >locate either of the above positions, then I can happily place a pin in
> >the map at the point given. Any inaccuracies from here on are down to
> >the Ordnance Survey. If this is incorrect I'd be interested to know
> >why.
>
> Not exactly easy to measure lat/long on an OS map!
>

What is difficult about it?

G1ITV

[Andy Cowley]

KW wrote:

> "Jock." <***@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:***@4ax.com...
>
>>On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:16:24 GMT, Trevor Day
>
> <***@secornwall.removethis.com> wrote:
>
>>>From my simple way of looking at this, if I have an OS Map and use it to
>>>locate either of the above positions, then I can happily place a pin in
>>>the map at the point given. Any inaccuracies from here on are down to
>>>the Ordnance Survey. If this is incorrect I'd be interested to know
>>>why.
>>
>>Not exactly easy to measure lat/long on an OS map!
>>
>
>
> What is difficult about it?
>
> G1ITV
>
>
>
Non linear scales in both directions, lines
of constant Lat or Long are not straight, will
do for a start.

vy 73

Andy, M1EBV

[Brian Reay]

"Trevor Day" <***@secornwall.removethis.com> wrote in message
news:***@secornwall.com...

>
> Forgive me for breaking in, but I am also a bit confused about your
> statement that Lat/Long is not a point measurement. AFAICS any position
> given as Lat/Long defines a precise point. The point might not be the
> one you want to define but is not 54N 3W just as much a point as
> 54 32' 55"N 3 46' 08"W ? Changing the seconds to, for example,
> 55.357542' and 08.862463' doesn't make the position any more accurate,
> it just shifts it by a small increment.
>
> From my simple way of looking at this, if I have an OS Map and use it to
> locate either of the above positions, then I can happily place a pin in
> the map at the point given. Any inaccuracies from here on are down to
> the Ordnance Survey. If this is incorrect I'd be interested to know
> why.


However precisely you specify the position, there is an element of error-
basically +/- 1/2 the smallest numeric value you specify.

Say you give your position as 51 deg N 1 degree east, to the nearest
degree. Looking at just the Latitude, your actual positon could be between
50.5 degrees N and 51.499999 ....... degrees N. Specifying the position to,
say, 1 second of arc, reduces the error to + / - 1/2 second of arc but,
when you consider both Lat and Long, that gives you an AREA of uncertainty
(about 1 second of arc by 1 second of arc.)

There are also errors from the spheriod used, and the map projection. These
all give you errors in a minumum of 2 dimensions- giving you and area of
uncertainty.



--
Brian Reay
www.g8osn.org.uk
www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk
FP#898

[Trevor Day]

In message <***@uni-berlin.de>, Brian Reay
<***@bigfoot.com> writes
>"Trevor Day" <***@secornwall.removethis.com> wrote in message
>news:***@secornwall.com...
>
>>
>> Forgive me for breaking in, but I am also a bit confused about your
>> statement that Lat/Long is not a point measurement. AFAICS any position
>> given as Lat/Long defines a precise point. The point might not be the
>> one you want to define but is not 54N 3W just as much a point as
>> 54 32' 55"N 3 46' 08"W ? Changing the seconds to, for example,
>> 55.357542' and 08.862463' doesn't make the position any more accurate,
>> it just shifts it by a small increment.
>>
>> From my simple way of looking at this, if I have an OS Map and use it to
>> locate either of the above positions, then I can happily place a pin in
>> the map at the point given. Any inaccuracies from here on are down to
>> the Ordnance Survey. If this is incorrect I'd be interested to know
>> why.
>
>
>However precisely you specify the position, there is an element of error-
>basically +/- 1/2 the smallest numeric value you specify.
>
>Say you give your position as 51 deg N 1 degree east, to the nearest
>degree. Looking at just the Latitude, your actual positon could be between
>50.5 degrees N and 51.499999 ....... degrees N. Specifying the position to,
>say, 1 second of arc, reduces the error to + / - 1/2 second of arc but,
>when you consider both Lat and Long, that gives you an AREA of uncertainty
>(about 1 second of arc by 1 second of arc.)
>
>There are also errors from the spheriod used, and the map projection. These
>all give you errors in a minumum of 2 dimensions- giving you and area of
>uncertainty.

I am probably the only person who can't see this Brian, but I would like
to 'understand' this rather than 'accept' it.

Accepting errors in the spheroid used and map projection, suppose I draw
a circle representing a slice through a 'perfect' earth. I draw a
horizontal line through the centre of the circle to represent the
equator or 0 degrees where it bisects the circle. If I now draw a line
from the centre at 51 degrees from the horizontal, where the line
bisects the circle equates to a position 51 degrees North. I cannot see
how this can be anything other than 51 degrees precisely. If that is
the case, why is Latitude not as precise?

Now either my paragraph above is wrong in some way, or I misunderstand
how Lat and Long are derived (which is entirely possible :-))

Thanks
Trev
--
Trevor Day
SIP: ***@voiptalk.org

[Brian Reay]

"Trevor Day" <***@secornwall.removethis.com> wrote in message
news:***@secornwall.com...
>
> I am probably the only person who can't see this Brian, but I would like
> to 'understand' this rather than 'accept' it.
>
> Accepting errors in the spheroid used and map projection, suppose I draw
> a circle representing a slice through a 'perfect' earth. I draw a
> horizontal line through the centre of the circle to represent the
> equator or 0 degrees where it bisects the circle. If I now draw a line
> from the centre at 51 degrees from the horizontal, where the line
> bisects the circle equates to a position 51 degrees North. I cannot see
> how this can be anything other than 51 degrees precisely. If that is
> the case, why is Latitude not as precise?
>
> Now either my paragraph above is wrong in some way, or I misunderstand
> how Lat and Long are derived (which is entirely possible :-))
>

Nothing wrong with you basic understanding of spherical geometry but the
issue is your understanding of precision. Lets keep it one dimensional.

If I say something is 1 metre long (note not 1.0 metre long) then, by
convention, it can be between 0.5m and 1.499999..m - ie +/- 1/2 the smallest
place value of the digit I give (in this case 1 metre)

If I say it is 1.0m the it can be as small as 0.95 m and as large as
1.049999...m. (Place value of last digit I gave was 0.1m, half of this is
0.05m)

Now think latitude . 51 degrees could be 50.5 degrees to 51.4999....
degrees, nearly 1 degree of arc. Same in Longtitude. So, giving a position
to 1 degree in Lat / Long places me in an area of (nearly) 1 arc degree by
1 arc degree).

If I specify to 1 second, my box is (nearly) 1 arc second by 1 arc second.


--
Brian Reay
www.g8osn.org.uk
www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk
FP#898

[Trevor Day]

In message <***@uni-berlin.de>, Brian Reay
<***@bigfoot.com> writes
>"Trevor Day" <***@secornwall.removethis.com> wrote in message
>news:***@secornwall.com...
> >
>> I am probably the only person who can't see this Brian, but I would like
>> to 'understand' this rather than 'accept' it.
>>
>> Accepting errors in the spheroid used and map projection, suppose I draw
>> a circle representing a slice through a 'perfect' earth. I draw a
>> horizontal line through the centre of the circle to represent the
>> equator or 0 degrees where it bisects the circle. If I now draw a line
>> from the centre at 51 degrees from the horizontal, where the line
>> bisects the circle equates to a position 51 degrees North. I cannot see
>> how this can be anything other than 51 degrees precisely. If that is
>> the case, why is Latitude not as precise?
>>
>> Now either my paragraph above is wrong in some way, or I misunderstand
>> how Lat and Long are derived (which is entirely possible :-))
>>
>
>Nothing wrong with you basic understanding of spherical geometry but the
>issue is your understanding of precision. Lets keep it one dimensional.
>
>If I say something is 1 metre long (note not 1.0 metre long) then, by
>convention, it can be between 0.5m and 1.499999..m - ie +/- 1/2 the smallest
>place value of the digit I give (in this case 1 metre)
>
>If I say it is 1.0m the it can be as small as 0.95 m and as large as
>1.049999...m. (Place value of last digit I gave was 0.1m, half of this is
>0.05m)
>
>Now think latitude . 51 degrees could be 50.5 degrees to 51.4999....
>degrees, nearly 1 degree of arc. Same in Longtitude. So, giving a position
>to 1 degree in Lat / Long places me in an area of (nearly) 1 arc degree by
>1 arc degree).
>
>If I specify to 1 second, my box is (nearly) 1 arc second by 1 arc second.
>
Does this not depend upon which way you do the conversion? I can fully
understand that given an arbitrary point on the globes surface and being
asked to convert that to Lat/Long will require a level of precision to
be specified.

If we do this the other way around and I state say a Lat of 90 N and any
Longitude I am at the true North Pole or am I not :-)

Trev
--
Trevor Day
SIP: ***@voiptalk.org

[Brian Reay]

"Trevor Day" <***@secornwall.removethis.com> wrote in message
news:***@secornwall.com...

> >
> >Nothing wrong with you basic understanding of spherical geometry but the
> >issue is your understanding of precision. Lets keep it one dimensional.
> >
> >If I say something is 1 metre long (note not 1.0 metre long) then, by
> >convention, it can be between 0.5m and 1.499999..m - ie +/- 1/2 the
smallest
> >place value of the digit I give (in this case 1 metre)
> >
> >If I say it is 1.0m the it can be as small as 0.95 m and as large as
> >1.049999...m. (Place value of last digit I gave was 0.1m, half of this is
> >0.05m)
> >
> >Now think latitude . 51 degrees could be 50.5 degrees to 51.4999....
> >degrees, nearly 1 degree of arc. Same in Longtitude. So, giving a
position
> >to 1 degree in Lat / Long places me in an area of (nearly) 1 arc degree
by
> >1 arc degree).
> >
> >If I specify to 1 second, my box is (nearly) 1 arc second by 1 arc
second.
> >
> Does this not depend upon which way you do the conversion?

No, that is another potential source of error! Conversions between grid
systems include errors due to:

Precision of the stating position.
Different spheriods (the OS grid does use the current WGS model and there
are many other spheriods to choose form).
Projection- the local 'warping' to give a linear grid laying over a curved
surface
Grid misalignents.
Rounding errors as the final position is presented.

If you have a GPS, keep the position display as Lat / Long and (without
moving) change the spheriod it is using. You appear to 'move' by a
surprising amount.

> I can fully
> understand that given an arbitrary point on the globes surface and being
> asked to convert that to Lat/Long will require a level of precision to
> be specified.
>
> If we do this the other way around and I state say a Lat of 90 N and any
> Longitude I am at the true North Pole or am I not :-)
>

Strictly speaking, you are within +/- 0.5 degrees if the pole.

--
Brian Reay
www.g8osn.org.uk
www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk
FP#898

[Brian Reay]

"Brian Reay" <brian.reay@(spamstopper)bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:***@uni-berlin.de...
>
> Precision of the stating position.
> Different spheriods (the OS grid does use the current WGS model and there

Sorry, I meant does not use the current WGS model.

--
Brian Reay
www.g8osn.org.uk
www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk
FP#898

[KW]

"Brian Reay" <brian.reay@(spamstopper)bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:***@uni-berlin.de...
> > If we do this the other way around and I state say a Lat of 90 N and any
> > Longitude I am at the true North Pole or am I not :-)
> >
>
> Strictly speaking, you are within +/- 0.5 degrees if the pole.
>
Someone is UP the pole, and it's not Trevor or Me!

G1ITV

[Brian Reay]

"KW" <***@MTLworld.com> wrote in message
news:kSBad.1509$***@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
>
> "Brian Reay" <brian.reay@(spamstopper)bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:***@uni-berlin.de...
> > > If we do this the other way around and I state say a Lat of 90 N and
any
> > > Longitude I am at the true North Pole or am I not :-)
> > >
> >
> > Strictly speaking, you are within +/- 0.5 degrees if the pole.
> >
> Someone is UP the pole, and it's not Trevor or Me!
>

Try reading this site:

http://www.easymaths.com/make_no_mistake.htm

If you don't like that site, do your own Google on the topic.


--
Brian Reay
www.g8osn.org.uk
www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk
FP#898

[KW]

Brian,
Let's forget about GPS, WGS84, WD40 and anything else which has been
introduced along the way to muddy the view.

For example, let us take the "Lower Hinge Pin" on my front gate.

We can give this an accurate Lat/Long
or
An accurate OS grid referance
or
An accurate Maidenhead locator referance
or even
An accurate Worked All Britain Area

From TWO of the above I can locate my "Lower Hinge Pin"

From the other TWO we can not.

Without regressing to Y9 maths and half's of everything what the hell is
wrong with the above.

G1ITV

[Brian Reay]

"KW" <***@MTLworld.com> wrote in message
news:5mCad.1532$***@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
> Brian,
> Let's forget about GPS, WGS84, WD40 and anything else which has
been
> introduced along the way to muddy the view.
>
> For example, let us take the "Lower Hinge Pin" on my front gate.
>
> We can give this an accurate Lat/Long
> or
> An accurate OS grid referance
> or
> An accurate Maidenhead locator referance
> or even
> An accurate Worked All Britain Area
>
> From TWO of the above I can locate my "Lower Hinge Pin"
>
> From the other TWO we can not.
>
> Without regressing to Y9 maths and half's of everything what the hell is
> wrong with the above.
>

You don't understand that all of the above are limited by the precision of
the position you record. That position has errors in x and y (or E/W, N/S).
Those errors give you an AREA than you can locate the hinge pin in.
(Actually, if we stir in spheroids we can have a 3D error but one step at a
time.)

Say you give your hinge pin position using an OS six figure reference, what
is the value of the last digit in the Easting and Northing?

I suggest you look at an OS map before you answer.

Now, how big is the square your six figure postion tells me you hinge pin is
actually in?

1m x 1m
10m x 10m
100m x 100m
1000m x 1000m


All of the methods you quote actually relate to an area, the size of which
is determined by the precision the position is given to.

The WAB square is a OS grid reference, by the way. Just not a precise one-
if memory serves 10km by 10km.


--
Brian Reay
www.g8osn.org.uk
www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk
FP#898

[KW]

"Brian Reay" <brian.reay@(spamstopper)bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:***@uni-berlin.de...
> The WAB square is a OS grid reference, by the way. Just not a precise
one-
> if memory serves 10km by 10km.

No, there are NO squares in the WAB system. They are areas, due to the fact
that there could be three areas within a 10k Square.

G1ITV

[Andy Cowley]

KW wrote:

> Brian,
> Let's forget about GPS, WGS84, WD40 and anything else which has been
> introduced along the way to muddy the view.
>
> For example, let us take the "Lower Hinge Pin" on my front gate.
>
> We can give this an accurate Lat/Long
> or
> An accurate OS grid referance
> or
> An accurate Maidenhead locator referance
> or even
> An accurate Worked All Britain Area
>
> From TWO of the above I can locate my "Lower Hinge Pin"
>
> From the other TWO we can not.
>
> Without regressing to Y9 maths and half's of everything what the hell is
> wrong with the above.


It's rubbish. There is no such thing as an "accurate" anything. You
imply that it is possible to measure a position (or any other real
quantity) with no error. This is false. Saying "An accurate Lat/Long"
is meaningless unless you state how accurate it is. You must define
the size of your maximum error in order to state the accuracy of your
measurement. Accuracy is a matter of degree, it is not an absolute
quality. It beats me why you find this so difficult to understand.

The Maidenhed locator system allows for more than six symbols in the
position string, so it can specify an area as small as you like. You
seem not to know this. So now three of the measurements above can be
given with an arbitrary accuracy, limited only by the error of your
measurement. The other is an integer only measurement and is unsuitable
for specifying real quantities.

73

Andy, M1EBV

[Trevor Day]

In message <***@uni-berlin.de>, Brian Reay
<***@bigfoot.com> writes
>"Trevor Day" <***@secornwall.removethis.com> wrote in message
>news:***@secornwall.com...
snip

>> Does this not depend upon which way you do the conversion?
>
>No, that is another potential source of error! Conversions between grid
>systems include errors due to:
>
>Precision of the stating position.
>Different spheriods (the OS grid does use the current WGS model and there
>are many other spheriods to choose form).
>Projection- the local 'warping' to give a linear grid laying over a curved
>surface
>Grid misalignents.
>Rounding errors as the final position is presented.
>
I am happy with that, but we are talking about a 'perfect world' where
these errors do not apply.

>If you have a GPS, keep the position display as Lat / Long and (without
>moving) change the spheriod it is using. You appear to 'move' by a
>surprising amount.
Happy with that too and I understand the reasons why it happens
>> I can fully
>> understand that given an arbitrary point on the globes surface and being
>> asked to convert that to Lat/Long will require a level of precision to
>> be specified.
>>
>> If we do this the other way around and I state say a Lat of 90 N and any
>> Longitude I am at the true North Pole or am I not :-)
>>
>
>Strictly speaking, you are within +/- 0.5 degrees if the pole.
>
I think I will just have to blunder on thinking that it is possible to
have absolute values of measurement Brian. I can follow what you are
saying its just that I can't see why precision, in the sense you have
portrayed it, always has to apply.

As far as I am concerned, a circle will always have 360 degrees (not 360
+/- 0.5) and a triangles internal angles will always add up to 180
degrees. Absolute values may not be practical in many situations, but I
still don't see why they cannot be applied to Lat/Long.

Trev

--
Trevor Day
SIP: ***@voiptalk.org

[Brian Reay]

"Trevor Day" <***@secornwall.removethis.com> wrote in message
news:Kb1iCFP+***@secornwall.com...
> >Precision of the stating position.
> >Different spheriods (the OS grid does use the current WGS model and there
> >are many other spheriods to choose form).
> >Projection- the local 'warping' to give a linear grid laying over a
curved
> >surface
> >Grid misalignents.
> >Rounding errors as the final position is presented.
> >
> I am happy with that, but we are talking about a 'perfect world' where
> these errors do not apply.


Oh, we are in a perfect world. I missed the change ;-)

> >Strictly speaking, you are within +/- 0.5 degrees if the pole.
> >
> I think I will just have to blunder on thinking that it is possible to
> have absolute values of measurement Brian. I can follow what you are
> saying its just that I can't see why precision, in the sense you have
> portrayed it, always has to apply.

Precsion is a function if measurement, recording of that measurement, and
processing if that measurement.

> As far as I am concerned, a circle will always have 360 degrees (not 360
> +/- 0.5) and a triangles internal angles will always add up to 180
> degrees.

But if you took a protractor and measured those angles to the precision the
protractor was capable of then you may not get 360 or 180.

>Absolute values may not be practical in many situations, but I
> still don't see why they cannot be applied to Lat/Long.

Because lat/long is a measurement made, recorded, and processed to a
precision. Errors in that process give you errors in Eastings and Northings
than translate to an area (if we stay 2D).



--
Brian Reay
www.g8osn.org.uk
www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk
FP#898

[Trevor Day]

In message <***@uni-berlin.de>, Brian Reay
<***@bigfoot.com> writes
>"Trevor Day" <***@secornwall.removethis.com> wrote in message
>news:Kb1iCFP+***@secornwall.com...
> > >Precision of the stating position.
>> >Different spheriods (the OS grid does use the current WGS model and there
>> >are many other spheriods to choose form).
>> >Projection- the local 'warping' to give a linear grid laying over a
>curved
>> >surface
>> >Grid misalignents.
>> >Rounding errors as the final position is presented.
>> >
>> I am happy with that, but we are talking about a 'perfect world' where
>> these errors do not apply.
>
>
>Oh, we are in a perfect world. I missed the change ;-)
>
I suppose I should not have snipped too much of my earlier post where I
set my precision criteria :-) Here it is again:

"Accepting errors in the spheroid used and map projection, suppose I
draw
a circle representing a slice through a 'perfect' earth. "

> > >Strictly speaking, you are within +/- 0.5 degrees if the pole.
>> >
>> I think I will just have to blunder on thinking that it is possible to
>> have absolute values of measurement Brian. I can follow what you are
>> saying its just that I can't see why precision, in the sense you have
>> portrayed it, always has to apply.
>
>Precsion is a function if measurement, recording of that measurement, and
>processing if that measurement.
>
>> As far as I am concerned, a circle will always have 360 degrees (not 360
>> +/- 0.5) and a triangles internal angles will always add up to 180
>> degrees.
>
>But if you took a protractor and measured those angles to the precision the
>protractor was capable of then you may not get 360 or 180.
>
>>Absolute values may not be practical in many situations, but I
>> still don't see why they cannot be applied to Lat/Long.
>
>Because lat/long is a measurement made, recorded, and processed to a
>precision. Errors in that process give you errors in Eastings and Northings
>than translate to an area (if we stay 2D).

You appear to suggest that there is no such thing as an absolute
dimension Brian. If this is not the case, where would you allow
absolute dimensions to exist?





--
Trevor Day
SIP: ***@voiptalk.org

[Brian Reay]

"Trevor Day" <***@secornwall.removethis.com> wrote in message
news:***@secornwall.com...
>
> You appear to suggest that there is no such thing as an absolute
> dimension Brian. If this is not the case, where would you allow
> absolute dimensions to exist?

Tis not me who suggested this. Never heard of the "uncertainty principle"?

You can't measure something to a infinite precsion. I didn't make the rule,
no doubt someone will blame the RSGB for it ;-)

--
Brian Reay
www.g8osn.org.uk
www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk
FP#898

[KW]

"Brian Reay" <brian.reay@(spamstopper)bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:***@uni-berlin.de...
> "Trevor Day" <***@secornwall.removethis.com> wrote in message
> news:***@secornwall.com...
> >
> > You appear to suggest that there is no such thing as an absolute
> > dimension Brian. If this is not the case, where would you allow
> > absolute dimensions to exist?
>
> Tis not me who suggested this. Never heard of the "uncertainty principle"?
>
> You can't measure something to a infinite precsion. I didn't make the
rule,
> no doubt someone will blame the RSGB for it ;-)

The question is about CONVERSION and not about measurment.

Please feel free to reply with as much bollocks as in your previous posts.

G1ITV

[Brian Reay]

"KW" <***@MTLworld.com> wrote in message
news:IHDad.1563$***@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
>
> "Brian Reay" <brian.reay@(spamstopper)bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:***@uni-berlin.de...
>> "Trevor Day" <***@secornwall.removethis.com> wrote in message
>> news:***@secornwall.com...
>> >
>> > You appear to suggest that there is no such thing as an absolute
>> > dimension Brian. If this is not the case, where would you allow
>> > absolute dimensions to exist?
>>
>> Tis not me who suggested this. Never heard of the "uncertainty
>> principle"?
>>
>> You can't measure something to a infinite precsion. I didn't make the
> rule,
>> no doubt someone will blame the RSGB for it ;-)
>
> The question is about CONVERSION and not about measurment.
>

OK, one more time. You measure your position by some means and record it to
a given precision. Converting that position to another format doesn't
improve the precision, it can only degrade it- rounding in the calculation,
roundings in the spherical model, etc etc.

If you give your position with a OS 6 figure reference you are saying "I am
in a square 100m by 100m" - ie I am in this area. Give it with 4 figure and
that square is 1000m x 1000m. With 8 figure the square is 10m x 10m. 10
figures 1m x 1m. You can increase the number of figures as much as you like
(assuming you can measure to that precision) but you still get a finite
area.

Same goes for Lat and Long, the areas are just defined in arc seconds by
arc seconds (or minutes or whatever you go to) .

With Maidenhead the available precision is limited- there is no need to
locate a amateurs QTH to great precision for the purposes of awards etc- a
larger square is good enough.

I suggest you look at the Ordinance survey website, they used to do some
good educational packs on the grid system and its use.


--
Brian Reay
www.g8osn.org.uk
www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk
FP#898

[Andy Cowley]

KW wrote:

> "Brian Reay" <brian.reay@(spamstopper)bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:***@uni-berlin.de...
>
>>"Trevor Day" <***@secornwall.removethis.com> wrote in message
>>news:***@secornwall.com...
>> >
>>
>>>You appear to suggest that there is no such thing as an absolute
>>>dimension Brian. If this is not the case, where would you allow
>>>absolute dimensions to exist?
>>
>>Tis not me who suggested this. Never heard of the "uncertainty principle"?
>>
>>You can't measure something to a infinite precsion. I didn't make the
>
> rule,
>
>>no doubt someone will blame the RSGB for it ;-)
>
>
> The question is about CONVERSION and not about measurment (sic).
>
> Please feel free to reply with as much bollocks as in your previous posts.
>

You're the one who started the bollocks by claiming that
one measurement specified that imaginary beast the point,
of which not a single example has ever been found outside
imagination or idealisation.

The original question was about the conversion of one
_measurement_ into a different representation. You
claimed they were incomensurable, which they are not.

Andy, M1EBV

[MattD..]

On Tuesday 12 Oct 2004 13:48, the whim of a few quarks and leptons to be
Andy Cowley for a while caused the following to be typed:

> You're the one who started the bollocks by claiming that
> one measurement specified that imaginary beast the point

This is starting to sound like an Airy DSP thread. He made the same mistake
of assuming something with zero width (error/area) could exist in the real
world, too.
--
Radio glossary #39
Call-book: The RSGB's marketing list.

[Nimrod]

"MattD.." NO hOPe<***@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:***@uni-berlin.de...
> On Tuesday 12 Oct 2004 13:48, the whim of a few quarks and leptons to be
> Andy Cowley for a while caused the following to be typed:
>
> > You're the one who started the bollocks by claiming that
> > one measurement specified that imaginary beast the point
>
> This is starting to sound like an Airy DSP thread. He made the same
mistake
> of assuming something with zero width (error/area) could exist in the real
> world, too.

One difference Matt. In Airy's DSP threads he is the only one who posts
bollocks. In this one you and G1ITV are posting bollocks.

I see Andy and Brian have worked you over good an proper. Time you left the
technical stuff to those who know.

Your record on stuff technical ain't too impressive. Is it?

[Jock.]

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:30:26 +0100, "Nimrod" <***@me.com> wrote:

>
>"MattD.." NO hOPe<***@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:***@uni-berlin.de...
>> On Tuesday 12 Oct 2004 13:48, the whim of a few quarks and leptons to be
>> Andy Cowley for a while caused the following to be typed:
>>
>> > You're the one who started the bollocks by claiming that
>> > one measurement specified that imaginary beast the point
>>
>> This is starting to sound like an Airy DSP thread. He made the same
>mistake
>> of assuming something with zero width (error/area) could exist in the real
>> world, too.
>
>One difference Matt. In Airy's DSP threads he is the only one who posts
>bollocks. In this one you and G1ITV are posting bollocks.
>
>I see Andy and Brian have worked you over good an proper. Time you left the
>technical stuff to those who know.
>
>Your record on stuff technical ain't too impressive. Is it?

I don't recall yours even existing, far less impressing anyone!

--

Jock.

A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people
going to the polls.

- Dan Quayle ex US Vice President

[Nimrod]

"Jock." <***@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:***@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:30:26 +0100, "Nimrod" <***@me.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >"MattD.." NO hOPe<***@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:***@uni-berlin.de...
> >> On Tuesday 12 Oct 2004 13:48, the whim of a few quarks and leptons to
be
> >> Andy Cowley for a while caused the following to be typed:
> >>
> >> > You're the one who started the bollocks by claiming that
> >> > one measurement specified that imaginary beast the point
> >>
> >> This is starting to sound like an Airy DSP thread. He made the same
> >mistake
> >> of assuming something with zero width (error/area) could exist in the
real
> >> world, too.
> >
> >One difference Matt. In Airy's DSP threads he is the only one who posts
> >bollocks. In this one you and G1ITV are posting bollocks.
> >
> >I see Andy and Brian have worked you over good an proper. Time you left
the
> >technical stuff to those who know.
> >
> >Your record on stuff technical ain't too impressive. Is it?
>
> I don't recall yours even existing, far less impressing anyone!
>


Seems to have got Matt's attention, and Nick's, and Walt's, and the
Chippenham Fool.

.

[Trevor Day]

In message <***@uni-berlin.de>, Brian Reay
<***@bigfoot.com> writes
>"Trevor Day" <***@secornwall.removethis.com> wrote in message
>news:***@secornwall.com...
> >
>> You appear to suggest that there is no such thing as an absolute
>> dimension Brian. If this is not the case, where would you allow
>> absolute dimensions to exist?
>
>Tis not me who suggested this. Never heard of the "uncertainty principle"?
>
>You can't measure something to a infinite precsion. I didn't make the rule,
>no doubt someone will blame the RSGB for it ;-)

OK, I'm stopping here :-)

Thanks for the chat..
Trev

--
Trevor Day
SIP: ***@voiptalk.org

[KW]

"Trevor Day" <***@secornwall.removethis.com> wrote in message
news:***@secornwall.com...
>
> You appear to suggest that there is no such thing as an absolute
> dimension Brian. If this is not the case, where would you allow
> absolute dimensions to exist?

If your lucky he may allow it to exist at -273 degrees C plus/minus 0.5C


G1ITV

[Andy Cowley]

KW wrote:

> "Trevor Day" <***@secornwall.removethis.com> wrote in message
> news:***@secornwall.com...
>
>>You appear to suggest that there is no such thing as an absolute
>>dimension Brian. If this is not the case, where would you allow
>>absolute dimensions to exist?
>
>
> If your(sic) lucky he may allow it to exist at -273 degrees C plus/minus 0.5C

-273.15 degrees Celsius +/- 0.02 Kelvins ;-)

But you have omitted the error due to the vacuum energy, so you're out of luck.

vy 73

Andy, M1EBV

[KW]

"Brian Reay" <brian.reay@(spamstopper)bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:***@uni-berlin.de...
> "Trevor Day" <***@secornwall.removethis.com> wrote in message
> news:Kb1iCFP+***@secornwall.com...
> > >Precision of the stating position.
> > >Different spheriods (the OS grid does use the current WGS model and
there
> > >are many other spheriods to choose form).
> > >Projection- the local 'warping' to give a linear grid laying over a
> curved
> > >surface
> > >Grid misalignents.
> > >Rounding errors as the final position is presented.
> > >
> > I am happy with that, but we are talking about a 'perfect world' where
> > these errors do not apply.
>
>
> Oh, we are in a perfect world. I missed the change ;-)
>
> > >Strictly speaking, you are within +/- 0.5 degrees if the pole.
> > >
> > I think I will just have to blunder on thinking that it is possible to
> > have absolute values of measurement Brian. I can follow what you are
> > saying its just that I can't see why precision, in the sense you have
> > portrayed it, always has to apply.
>
> Precsion is a function if measurement, recording of that measurement, and
> processing if that measurement.
>
> > As far as I am concerned, a circle will always have 360 degrees (not 360
> > +/- 0.5) and a triangles internal angles will always add up to 180
> > degrees.
>
> But if you took a protractor and measured those angles to the precision
the
> protractor was capable of then you may not get 360 or 180.
>
> >Absolute values may not be practical in many situations, but I
> > still don't see why they cannot be applied to Lat/Long.
>
> Because lat/long is a measurement made, recorded, and processed to a
> precision. Errors in that process give you errors in Eastings and
Northings
> than translate to an area (if we stay 2D).
>
But surely...........
1
C Converting between grid eastings and
northings and ellipsoidal latitude and longitude
Converting latitude and longitude to eastings and northings
To convert a position from the graticule of latitude and longitude
coordinates ( ?, ?) to a grid of easting
and northing coordinates (E, N) using a Transverse Mercator projection (for
example, National Grid or
UTM), compute the following formulae. Remember to express all angles in
radians. You will need the
ellipsoid constants a , b and e² and the following projection constants.
Annexe A gives values of
these constants for the ellipsoids and projections usually used in Britain.
N0 northing of true origin
E0 easting of true origin
F0 scale factor on central meridian
?0 latitude of true origin
?0 longitude of true origin and central meridian.
n a b
a b
= .
+
C1
5 . 0 2 2
0 ) sin 1 ( . . = ? ? e aF
5 . 1 2 2 2
0 ) sin 1 )( 1 ( . . . = ? ? e e aF
1 2 . =
?
? v
C2
M bF
n n n n n n
n n n
=
+ + + .
. .
.ÿ ÿ
. . + + .
. .
.ÿ ÿ
. +
+ + .
. .
.ÿ ÿ
. + . . +
.
.
....
.
ÿ
ÿÿÿÿ
0
2 3
0
2 3
0 0
2 3
0 0
3
0 0
1 5
4
5 4
3 3 21
8
15
8
15
8
2 2 35
24
3 3
( ) sin( ) cos( )
sin( ( )) cos( ( )) sin( ( )) cos( ( ))
? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
C3
I= + M N0
II = ? ? ?
2
sin cos
III= . + ? ? ? ? ?
24
9 3 2 2 sin cos (5 tan )
IIIA= . + ? ? ? ? ?
720
61 58 5 2 4 sin cos ( tan tan )
IV = ? ? cos
V= .
.
. .
.
ÿ ÿ
? ? ?
?
?
6
3 2 cos tan
( ) VI= . + + . ? ? ? ? ? ??
120
5 18 14 58 5 2 4 2 2 2 cos tan tan (tan )
N = + . + . + . I II IIIA ( ) III( ) ( ) ? ? ? ? ? ? 0
2
0
4
0
6 C4
E E = + . + . + . 0 0 0
3
0
5 IV V VI ( ) ( ) ( ) ? ? ? ? ? ? C5

[Andy Cowley]

Trevor Day wrote:

> In message <***@uni-berlin.de>, Brian Reay
>
> As far as I am concerned, a circle will always have 360 degrees (not 360
> +/- 0.5) and a triangles internal angles will always add up to 180
> degrees. Absolute values may not be practical in many situations, but I
> still don't see why they cannot be applied to Lat/Long.
>

Care to write down those two examples in radians then, Trev? You're
going to need a BIG bit of paper. ;-)

Your triangle, provided that it is perfectly flat, will have angles
that sum to pi radians or 180 degrees. That is by definition, not by
measurement. But you won't be able to state the size of _one_ of the
angles as _exactly_ some number of degrees as you will need to measure
it and measurement is _always_ imprecise.

So the reason you cannot apply absolute values to Lat/Long is that it
is a measured real quantity and, as such, is always and without exception
subject to measurement error.


vy 73

Andy, M1EBV

[Andy Cowley]

Trevor Day wrote:


>
> You appear to suggest that there is no such thing as an absolute
> dimension Brian. If this is not the case, where would you allow
> absolute dimensions to exist?
>

In imagination or idealisation. They certainly don't exist in
the real world.

There is an inherent limitation on the accuracy of Lat/Long
measurements (very small but still there) due to tidal and
other distortions of the earth.


vy 73

Andy, M1EBV

[Peter]

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 19:33:09 +0100, "Brian Reay"
<brian.reay@(spamstopper)bigfoot.com> wrote:

>If I say something is 1 metre long (note not 1.0 metre long) then, by
>convention, it can be between 0.5m and 1.499999..m - ie +/- 1/2 the smallest
>place value of the digit I give (in this case 1 metre)


Using your convention, I can then offer 50p for something priced at
£1 !

In _common_ parlance 1 metre = 1.0 metres, £1 = £1.00 ... surely?

Peter, G3PHO

[Brian Reay]

"Peter" <***@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:***@news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 19:33:09 +0100, "Brian Reay"
> <brian.reay@(spamstopper)bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
> >If I say something is 1 metre long (note not 1.0 metre long) then, by
> >convention, it can be between 0.5m and 1.499999..m - ie +/- 1/2 the
smallest
> >place value of the digit I give (in this case 1 metre)
>
>
> Using your convention, I can then offer 50p for something priced at
> £1 !
>
> In _common_ parlance 1 metre = 1.0 metres, £1 = £1.00 ... surely?
>

In common parlance, yes. But, if you follow the thread, this isn't a common
parlance discussion ;-)

There is confusion over how grid systems, inc lat / long, work.

Basically, a position given precision any system defines an area on the
earth's surface, not a precise position. The size of that area varies
depending in the precision with which you give the position. If you give in
degress of Lat / Long (whole degrees) that area is upto about 67miles by 67
miles (statue miles). That area isn't truely square, it varies in width as
latitude varies, and its sides are curves on the earth's surface. The each
side is an arc of a circle which is defined by an angle subtended at the
earth's centre.

If you give the position to 1 second, the area is about 1 mile by 1mile
maximum. Giving your postion to 1 second says "I'm in this area, which is
(wrougly) 1 mile by 1 mile"

Same principles apply to all grids.




--
Brian Reay
www.g8osn.org.uk
www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk
FP#898

[MattD..]

On Monday 11 Oct 2004 19:33, the whim of a few quarks and leptons to be
somebody, depending on which computer they're using today, for a while
caused the following to be typed:

> Now think latitude .  51 degrees could be 50.5 degrees to 51.4999....
> degrees, nearly 1 degree of arc. Same in Longtitude. So, giving a position
> to 1 degree in Lat / Long places me in an area of (nearly) 1 arc degree by
> 1 arc degree).

I really wouldn't like to take navigation lessons from you, that is certain.
1 second of latitude is a nautical mile, which is why measurements on
nautical charts are taken from the latitude graticule closest to the point
being measured due to projection of the charts. Longitude arc seconds as a
distance vary with latitude, but latitude is a constand 1nm = 1 second,
corollary _ONE_DEGREE_ = 60nm and arcs be damned. They're parallel circles
of varying diameter, AKA small circles, not angles projected on a
theoretical sphere as great circles.
--
Radio glossary #20
TNC: A stress generator, both when working and when not.

[Andy Cowley]

MattD.. wrote:

> On Monday 11 Oct 2004 19:33, the whim of a few quarks and leptons to be
> somebody, depending on which computer they're using today, for a while
> caused the following to be typed:
>
>
>>Now think latitude . 51 degrees could be 50.5 degrees to 51.4999....
>>degrees, nearly 1 degree of arc. Same in Longtitude. So, giving a position
>>to 1 degree in Lat / Long places me in an area of (nearly) 1 arc degree by
>>1 arc degree).
>
>
> I really wouldn't like to take navigation lessons from you, that is certain.
> 1 second of latitude is a nautical mile, which is why measurements on
> nautical charts are taken from the latitude graticule closest to the point
> being measured due to projection of the charts. Longitude arc seconds as a
> distance vary with latitude, but latitude is a constand 1nm = 1 second,
> corollary _ONE_DEGREE_ = 60nm and arcs be damned. They're parallel circles
> of varying diameter, AKA small circles, not angles projected on a
> theoretical sphere as great circles.

Wait a minute. 1 nautical mile = 1 second of of latitude NOT. 90 degrees from
equator to pole. That's 90 x 60 x 60 seconds= 324000 seconds. What planet are
you from? By Jove it's a big'un! So I see why you don't want navigation lessons
from an earthman.

ITYMTS 1 minute of latitude = 1 Nautical mile. 1 second = 100 yards.

;-)

vy 73

Andy, M1EBV

[Brian Reay]

"Andy Cowley" <***@uwe.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:***@bath.ac.uk...
> MattD.. wrote:
>
> > On Monday 11 Oct 2004 19:33, the whim of a few quarks and leptons to be
> > somebody, depending on which computer they're using today, for a while
> > caused the following to be typed:
> >
> >
> >>Now think latitude . 51 degrees could be 50.5 degrees to 51.4999....
> >>degrees, nearly 1 degree of arc. Same in Longtitude. So, giving a
position
> >>to 1 degree in Lat / Long places me in an area of (nearly) 1 arc degree
by
> >>1 arc degree).
> >
> >
> > I really wouldn't like to take navigation lessons from you, that is
certain.
> > 1 second of latitude is a nautical mile, which is why measurements on
> > nautical charts are taken from the latitude graticule closest to the
point
> > being measured due to projection of the charts. Longitude arc seconds as
a
> > distance vary with latitude, but latitude is a constand 1nm = 1 second,
> > corollary _ONE_DEGREE_ = 60nm and arcs be damned. They're parallel
circles
> > of varying diameter, AKA small circles, not angles projected on a
> > theoretical sphere as great circles.
>
> Wait a minute. 1 nautical mile = 1 second of of latitude NOT. 90 degrees
from
> equator to pole. That's 90 x 60 x 60 seconds= 324000 seconds. What planet
are
> you from? By Jove it's a big'un! So I see why you don't want navigation
lessons
> from an earthman.
>
> ITYMTS 1 minute of latitude = 1 Nautical mile. 1 second = 100 yards.
>
> ;-)

Quite correct Andy, as Matt is in the kill file I'd missed that. I hope he
doesn't navigate a boat, ship, or aircraft before he does take some
navigation lessons ;-)

Also, Matt. you've mis-understood how the error in lat / long translates to
an area in the earths surface. Once away from the equator (ie not spanning
it) or poles, an area bounded by 4 points (each lat and long) is a
trapezoidal shape with curved edges. The parallel sides are latitude lines,
the none paralled sides are longitude lines. The sides are arcs on the
surface of the earth, joining the vertices of the trapezoid.

It is this curved trapeziodal shape that leads to the use of 'conic
projection' for maps, as they tend to distort (warp) the real map less. (At
the poles you get circles, spanning the equator you get a pair of trapezoids
joined at the long // side.)

In simple terms, if your latitude can be out by +/- 0.5 degree, and
longitude the same, you can be in an area 1 degree "high" (ie N/S) and 1
degree wide (E/W).

The N/S 1 degree is 1 nmile (see my earlier post- 1 degree approx 67 statue
mile, 1 nmile = approx 1.1 statute mile, so 1 degree = 1 nmile) ) while the
1 degree E/W can be from 1 nmile to 1nmile * cos latitude.

Regardless of how precisely you give your position, all you can do is define
a smaller area.

Ken's problem in understanding stems directly from this.


--
Brian Reay
www.g8osn.org.uk
www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk
FP#898

[Brian Reay]

"Andy Cowley" <***@uwe.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:***@bath.ac.uk...
> MattD.. wrote:
>
> > On Monday 11 Oct 2004 19:33, the whim of a few quarks and leptons to be
> > somebody, depending on which computer they're using today, for a while
> > caused the following to be typed:
> >
> >
> >>Now think latitude . 51 degrees could be 50.5 degrees to 51.4999....
> >>degrees, nearly 1 degree of arc. Same in Longtitude. So, giving a
position
> >>to 1 degree in Lat / Long places me in an area of (nearly) 1 arc degree
by
> >>1 arc degree).
> >
> >
> > I really wouldn't like to take navigation lessons from you, that is
certain.
> > 1 second of latitude is a nautical mile, which is why measurements on
> > nautical charts are taken from the latitude graticule closest to the
point
> > being measured due to projection of the charts. Longitude arc seconds as
a
> > distance vary with latitude, but latitude is a constand 1nm = 1 second,
> > corollary _ONE_DEGREE_ = 60nm and arcs be damned. They're parallel
circles
> > of varying diameter, AKA small circles, not angles projected on a
> > theoretical sphere as great circles.
>
> Wait a minute. 1 nautical mile = 1 second of of latitude NOT. 90 degrees
from
> equator to pole. That's 90 x 60 x 60 seconds= 324000 seconds. What planet
are
> you from? By Jove it's a big'un! So I see why you don't want navigation
lessons
> from an earthman.
>
> ITYMTS 1 minute of latitude = 1 Nautical mile. 1 second = 100 yards.
>

Quite correct Andy, 1nmile = 1 minute of latitude but 1 sec isn't 100yd.

1nmile is about 1.1 statute mile, or say 1900 yds. 1900 / 60 is about 31
yds.

--
Brian Reay
www.g8osn.org.uk
www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk
FP#898

[Jock.]

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:28:48 +0100, "Brian Reay"
<brian.reay@(spamstopper)bigfoot.com> wrote:

>Quite correct Andy, 1nmile = 1 minute of latitude but 1 sec isn't 100yd.

Doesn't it vary as you move north and south, or was that
1nm of longitude, which is one degree only at the equator?

--

Jock.

A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people
going to the polls.

- Dan Quayle ex US Vice President

[Brian Reay]

"Jock." <***@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:***@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:28:48 +0100, "Brian Reay"
> <brian.reay@(spamstopper)bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
> >Quite correct Andy, 1nmile = 1 minute of latitude but 1 sec isn't 100yd.
>
> Doesn't it vary as you move north and south, or was that
> 1nm of longitude, which is one degree only at the equator?
>

The length of an arc of longitude varies as you move N/S. Latitude is
constant.

Peel and orange, align the core vertical, and treat the pith lines between
the segments as lines if longitude.

I've used this as a "prop" several times when teaching navigation.


--
Brian Reay
www.g8osn.org.uk
www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk
FP#898

[MattD..]

On Tuesday 12 Oct 2004 14:14, the whim of a few quarks and leptons to be
Andy Cowley for a while caused the following to be typed:

> ITYMTS 1 minute of latitude = 1 Nautical mile. 1 second = 100 yards.

Smeg! I knew I'd get something wrong. Pedantic posts always have errors, you
know ;o)
--
Radio glossary #48
Radio ham: A knuckle joint of pork cooked in the microwave.

[Nimrod]

"MattD.." <***@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:***@uni-berlin.de...
> On Tuesday 12 Oct 2004 14:14, the whim of a few quarks and leptons to be
> Andy Cowley for a while caused the following to be typed:
>
> > ITYMTS 1 minute of latitude = 1 Nautical mile. 1 second = 100 yards.
>
> Smeg! I knew I'd get something wrong. Pedantic posts always have errors,
you
> know ;o)

Unless pedantic has a meaning I was previously unware of, that isn't the
term I would have used.

PPS is nearer the mark.

Or, in your case, FPPS (Failed Petty Point Scoring)

_STUPID BOY_

[Dan Wood]

> Say you give your position as 51 deg N 1 degree east, to the nearest
> degree. Looking at just the Latitude, your actual positon could be between
> 50.5 degrees N and 51.499999 ....... degrees N. Specifying the position
> to,

Of course you meant to say between 50.5 degrees and 51.5 degrees.

51.499999.......... is just a messy way of saying 51.5

;)

73,
Dan G0VIK

[Brian Reay]

"Dan Wood" <***@bigfoot.thanks.com> wrote in message
news:416acfd6$0$59472$***@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...
>
> > Say you give your position as 51 deg N 1 degree east, to the nearest
> > degree. Looking at just the Latitude, your actual positon could be
between
> > 50.5 degrees N and 51.499999 ....... degrees N. Specifying the position
> > to,
>
> Of course you meant to say between 50.5 degrees and 51.5 degrees.
>
> 51.499999.......... is just a messy way of saying 51.5
>
> ;)

If x given as 1m then:

0.5m <= x < 1.5 m

Note that the second inequality is a < not a < = , so x can't be as big as
1.5, it must be finite amount less than 1.5, such as 1.49999999.......

Equally, if say x is 51 degrees

50.5 <= x < 51.5 then x can be 50.5 but not as big as 51.5



--
Brian Reay
www.g8osn.org.uk
www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk
FP#898

[Dan Wood]

> Note that the second inequality is a < not a < = , so x can't be as big
> as
> 1.5, it must be finite amount less than 1.5, such as 1.49999999.......

Indeed. I had mistaken your notation of 51.49999.... to mean an infinite
non-terminating decimal (which would be *equal* to 51.5) where I now see you
actually meant a terminating (but arbitrarily long) decimal.

Perhaps a notation such as 1.49999....9 would have been clearer?

73,
Dan G0VIK

[Brian Reay]

"Dan Wood" <***@bigfoot.thanks.com> wrote in message
news:416aee0c$0$54807$***@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...
>
>
> > Note that the second inequality is a < not a < = , so x can't be as big
> > as
> > 1.5, it must be finite amount less than 1.5, such as 1.49999999.......
>
> Indeed. I had mistaken your notation of 51.49999.... to mean an infinite
> non-terminating decimal (which would be *equal* to 51.5) where I now see
you
> actually meant a terminating (but arbitrarily long) decimal.
>

A posting is a bit limiting in notation and I think the concept of rational
and irrational numbers is a bit much for the NG ;-)

--
Brian Reay
www.g8osn.org.uk
www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk
FP#898

[KW]

"Brian Reay" <brian.reay@(spamstopper)bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:***@uni-berlin.de...
> However precisely you specify the position, there is an element of error-
> basically +/- 1/2 the smallest numeric value you specify.
>
> Say you give your position as 51 deg N 1 degree east, to the nearest
> degree. Looking at just the Latitude, your actual positon could be between
> 50.5 degrees N and 51.499999 ....... degrees N. Specifying the position
to,
> say, 1 second of arc, reduces the error to + / - 1/2 second of arc but,
> when you consider both Lat and Long, that gives you an AREA of uncertainty
> (about 1 second of arc by 1 second of arc.)
>
> There are also errors from the spheriod used, and the map projection.
These
> all give you errors in a minumum of 2 dimensions- giving you and area of
> uncertainty.


Just one question Brian.....................

If you tell me you have 3 children. Am I expected to presume you could
have 2.5 or 3.5 or any number in between?

Please don't make things hard for yourself.

G1ITV

[Brian Reay]

"KW" <***@MTLworld.com> wrote in message
news:qCAad.1486$***@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
>
> "Brian Reay" <brian.reay@(spamstopper)bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:***@uni-berlin.de...
> > However precisely you specify the position, there is an element of
error-
> > basically +/- 1/2 the smallest numeric value you specify.
> >
> > Say you give your position as 51 deg N 1 degree east, to the nearest
> > degree. Looking at just the Latitude, your actual positon could be
between
> > 50.5 degrees N and 51.499999 ....... degrees N. Specifying the position
> to,
> > say, 1 second of arc, reduces the error to + / - 1/2 second of arc but,
> > when you consider both Lat and Long, that gives you an AREA of
uncertainty
> > (about 1 second of arc by 1 second of arc.)
> >
> > There are also errors from the spheriod used, and the map projection.
> These
> > all give you errors in a minumum of 2 dimensions- giving you and area of
> > uncertainty.
>
>
> Just one question Brian.....................
>
> If you tell me you have 3 children. Am I expected to presume you could
> have 2.5 or 3.5 or any number in between?
>
> Please don't make things hard for yourself.
>

The number of children you can have is a positive integer (a whole number >
0) Unless you decide to have more than 10 children and round to 1 sf, then
you don't have to worry about the uncertainty. (If I have 23 children but
give it to you to 1 sf, then I would say 20 children. That could actually
mean between 15 and 24, as it must be an integer).

A measurement is a Real Number, and can take any value.

A position is a measurement.

Above is Y9 maths, not even GCSE level.

--
Brian Reay
www.g8osn.org.uk
www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk
FP#898

[Dan Wood]

> The number of children you can have is a positive integer (a whole number
> >
> 0)

It's me, the mathematical pedant again!
I think Brian meant to say that the number of children you can have is a
non-negative integer.
(an integer that is >=0).

Otherwise I have a child I don't know about somewhere...

73,
Dan G0VIK

[Brian Reay]

"Dan Wood" <***@bigfoot.thanks.com> wrote in message
news:416aeef2$0$54806$***@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...
>
> > The number of children you can have is a positive integer (a whole
number
> > >
> > 0)
>
> It's me, the mathematical pedant again!
> I think Brian meant to say that the number of children you can have is a
> non-negative integer.
> (an integer that is >=0).
>
> Otherwise I have a child I don't know about somewhere...
>

No, I just know more than you, remember the "buy me and stop one" ads ;-)

Seriously, in the example I was assuming at least one child.

--
Brian Reay
www.g8osn.org.uk
www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk
FP#898

[KW]

"Brian Reay" <brian.reay@(spamstopper)bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:***@uni-berlin.de...
> "Dan Wood" <***@bigfoot.thanks.com> wrote in message
> news:416aeef2$0$54806$***@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...
> >
> > > The number of children you can have is a positive integer (a whole
> number
> > > >
> > > 0)
> >
> > It's me, the mathematical pedant again!
> > I think Brian meant to say that the number of children you can have is a
> > non-negative integer.
> > (an integer that is >=0).
> >
> > Otherwise I have a child I don't know about somewhere...
> >
>
> No, I just know more than you, remember the "buy me and stop one" ads ;-)
>
> Seriously, in the example I was assuming at least one child.

As I said previously, the problem is people not understanding the
question/problem and then making one up just to get some answer which may or
may not fool the unwarey.

G1ITV

[Andy Cowley]

KW wrote:

> Just one question Brian.....................
>
> If you tell me you have 3 children. Am I expected to presume you could
> have 2.5 or 3.5 or any number in between?
>
> Please don't make things hard for yourself.


Har, har, har. You need to study the difference
between a real quantity and an integer.


Andy, M1EBV

[KW]

"Trevor Day" <***@secornwall.removethis.com> wrote in message
news:***@secornwall.com...

>
> Forgive me for breaking in, but I am also a bit confused about your
> statement that Lat/Long is not a point measurement. AFAICS any position
> given as Lat/Long defines a precise point. The point might not be the
> one you want to define but is not 54N 3W just as much a point as
> 54 32' 55"N 3 46' 08"W ? Changing the seconds to, for example,
> 55.357542' and 08.862463' doesn't make the position any more accurate,
> it just shifts it by a small increment.
>
> From my simple way of looking at this, if I have an OS Map and use it to
> locate either of the above positions, then I can happily place a pin in
> the map at the point given. Any inaccuracies from here on are down to
> the Ordnance Survey. If this is incorrect I'd be interested to know
> why.

You are infact quite correct Trevor. It's all down to understanding the
question before trying to answer the one that hasn't been asked. :-((

G1ITV

[Brian Reay]

"KW" <***@MTLworld.com> wrote in message
news:NxAad.1481$***@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
>
> "Trevor Day" <***@secornwall.removethis.com> wrote in message
> news:***@secornwall.com...
>
> >
> > Forgive me for breaking in, but I am also a bit confused about your
> > statement that Lat/Long is not a point measurement. AFAICS any position
> > given as Lat/Long defines a precise point. The point might not be the
> > one you want to define but is not 54N 3W just as much a point as
> > 54 32' 55"N 3 46' 08"W ? Changing the seconds to, for example,
> > 55.357542' and 08.862463' doesn't make the position any more accurate,
> > it just shifts it by a small increment.
> >
> > From my simple way of looking at this, if I have an OS Map and use it
to
> > locate either of the above positions, then I can happily place a pin in
> > the map at the point given. Any inaccuracies from here on are down to
> > the Ordnance Survey. If this is incorrect I'd be interested to know
> > why.
>
> You are infact quite correct Trevor. It's all down to understanding the
> question before trying to answer the one that hasn't been asked. :-((
>

Someone else doesn't understand precison.........

--
Brian Reay
www.g8osn.org.uk
www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk
FP#898

[Andy Cowley]

Trevor Day wrote:

>
> Forgive me for breaking in, but I am also a bit confused about your
> statement that Lat/Long is not a point measurement. AFAICS any position
> given as Lat/Long defines a precise point. The point might not be the
> one you want to define but is not 54N 3W just as much a point as
> 54 32' 55"N 3 46' 08"W ? Changing the seconds to, for example,
> 55.357542' and 08.862463' doesn't make the position any more accurate,
> it just shifts it by a small increment.
>
> From my simple way of looking at this, if I have an OS Map and use it
> to locate either of the above positions, then I can happily place a pin
> in the map at the point given. Any inaccuracies from here on are down
> to the Ordnance Survey. If this is incorrect I'd be interested to know
> why.
>
> Ta! :-)
>
> Trev G3ZYY

You are always welcome to add to the discussion.

I believe there is a fundamental difference between 54 N, 3W and
54 00' 00.0000000" N, 3 00' 00.0000000"W. Unless you specify the
accuracy otherwise, the last digit of the quantity implies the
accuracy. As there is no such thing as perfect accuracy
or indeed a point, you must either specify the accuracy or
imply it from the precision with which you express the quantity.
Any given co-ordinate pair must therefore specify an area. The
size of this area can be reduced by improving the precision of
measurement but it cannot ever be reduced to a point.

Your pin in a map is an error circle of about 25
metres on a 1/50000 Landranger map. O.S. maps on that, and the
1/25000, scales are not perfect scale representations in any
case. The width of features such as roads and streams is much
exagerated for clarity and there is significant distortion caused
by the projection used so that equal distances measured on
the map at the centre and edge do not represent equal distances on
the ground, for instance.


vy 73

Andy, M1EBV

[Trevor Day]

In message <***@bath.ac.uk>, Andy Cowley <***@uwe.ac.uk>
writes
>Trevor Day wrote:
>
>> Forgive me for breaking in, but I am also a bit confused about your
>>statement that Lat/Long is not a point measurement. AFAICS any
>>position given as Lat/Long defines a precise point. The point might
>>not be the one you want to define but is not 54N 3W just as much a point as
>> 54 32' 55"N 3 46' 08"W ? Changing the seconds to, for example,
>> 55.357542' and 08.862463' doesn't make the position any more
>>accurate, it just shifts it by a small increment.
>> From my simple way of looking at this, if I have an OS Map and use
>>it to locate either of the above positions, then I can happily place a
>>pin in the map at the point given. Any inaccuracies from here on are
>>down to the Ordnance Survey. If this is incorrect I'd be interested
>>to know why.
>> Ta! :-)
>> Trev G3ZYY
>
>You are always welcome to add to the discussion.
>
>I believe there is a fundamental difference between 54 N, 3W and
>54 00' 00.0000000" N, 3 00' 00.0000000"W. Unless you specify the
>accuracy otherwise, the last digit of the quantity implies the
>accuracy. As there is no such thing as perfect accuracy
>or indeed a point, you must either specify the accuracy or
>imply it from the precision with which you express the quantity.
>Any given co-ordinate pair must therefore specify an area. The
>size of this area can be reduced by improving the precision of
>measurement but it cannot ever be reduced to a point.
>
>Your pin in a map is an error circle of about 25
>metres on a 1/50000 Landranger map. O.S. maps on that, and the
>1/25000, scales are not perfect scale representations in any
>case. The width of features such as roads and streams is much
>exagerated for clarity and there is significant distortion caused
>by the projection used so that equal distances measured on
>the map at the centre and edge do not represent equal distances on
>the ground, for instance.
>
>
>vy 73
>
>Andy, M1EBV
Thanks Andy,
I had pretty much this discussion with Brian last night where I decided
in the end that my understanding, although perhaps not mathematically
perfect, worked for me in the real world.

I am perfectly happy with the concept that a Lat/Long needs infinite
precision to achieve infinite accuracy but consider the following which
is the way I deal with this:

First, lets accept that any mapping system will have inherent errors and
deal with this as if the earth was a perfect sphere.

If you say to me that you are at 90 N then I would assume you were at
the North Pole (not give or take some arbitrary distance)

If you are at Greenwich Observatory and tell me you are at 0 Longitude
and have one foot either side of the meridian, then either the meridian
is definable to within a few feet or you have exceedingly long legs :-)

If you ask me to provide you with the Lat/Long of your location to
within 1 second of arc, then I would expect to be anywhere from
precisely correct, to +/- 0.5 seconds of arc.

If I provide you with a Lat/Long then given the mapping limitations
stated earlier, then you should be able to pinpoint that position.
After all, something must be located underneath the intersection of
those Lat/Long co-ordinates at a fixed point regardless of whether this
is 90N or 53 24 22N
04 54 12 W

As I see it, Lat Long defines a point (which may need to have a level of
accuracy defined depending upon its application) And the Maidenhead
locator defines a box or area sized according to the type of locator
used.

Now I know that this doesn't match the models that both you and Brian
have described, but it seems to work in practice and keeps me happy :-)



--
Trevor Day
SIP: ***@voiptalk.org

[KW]

"Andy Cowley" <***@uwe.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:***@bath.ac.uk...
too.
>
> There is no need for any geometric transform when converting between
Maidenhead
> Locator and Lat/Long, The Maidenhead Locator being exactly based on
Lat/Long
> and introduced for convenience and improved readability when sending such
> information via an unreliable or noisy channel such as Amateur radio.

I had better inform Kinloss Radio and the Rescue services of the Maidenhead
system which has the miraculous properties "convenience and improved
readability when sending such information via an unreliable or noisy
channel".

I'm sure they will give up with the nasty old Lat/Long right away!

G1ITV

[Brian Reay]

"KW" <***@MTLworld.com> wrote in message
news:BpAad.1476$***@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
>
> "Andy Cowley" <***@uwe.ac.uk> wrote in message
> news:***@bath.ac.uk...
> too.
> >
> > There is no need for any geometric transform when converting between
> Maidenhead
> > Locator and Lat/Long, The Maidenhead Locator being exactly based on
> Lat/Long
> > and introduced for convenience and improved readability when sending
such
> > information via an unreliable or noisy channel such as Amateur radio.
>
> I had better inform Kinloss Radio and the Rescue services of the
Maidenhead
> system which has the miraculous properties "convenience and improved
> readability when sending such information via an unreliable or noisy
> channel".
>
> I'm sure they will give up with the nasty old Lat/Long right away!
>

Lat / Long (or one of the other systems such as OS, or UTM) is better for
general navigation but for the purpose of locating a radio station, when
precision isn't needed, the Maidenhead scheme is adequate and, being
shorter, better for this application.


--
Brian Reay
www.g8osn.org.uk
www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk
FP#898

[KW]

"Brian Reay" <brian.reay@(spamstopper)bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:***@uni-berlin.de...
>
> Lat / Long (or one of the other systems such as OS, or UTM) is better for
> general navigation but for the purpose of locating a radio station, when
> precision isn't needed, the Maidenhead scheme is adequate and, being
> shorter, better for this application.

Thank you Brian,
Just one point, why does the location of a Repeater have to be given in
Lat/Long to 4 decimal places when applying for a licence. Maybe because
Maidenhead does not eqate to ANY position at all, but to an area. BTW when I
say an area I don't mean an area and a half or even half an area whichever
takes you fancy.

If I could remind you that the origin of these posts was about converting
Locators to Lat/Long in case you had forgot.

G1ITV

[Brian Reay]

"KW" <***@MTLworld.com> wrote in message
news:uTAad.1491$***@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
>
> "Brian Reay" <brian.reay@(spamstopper)bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:***@uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > Lat / Long (or one of the other systems such as OS, or UTM) is better
for
> > general navigation but for the purpose of locating a radio station,
when
> > precision isn't needed, the Maidenhead scheme is adequate and, being
> > shorter, better for this application.
>
> Thank you Brian,
> Just one point, why does the location of a Repeater have to be given in
> Lat/Long to 4 decimal places when applying for a licence. Maybe because
> Maidenhead does not eqate to ANY position at all, but to an area.

More likely someone else doesn't understand precision. You don't say 4 dp of
what (degree, minutes, or seconds).

Assume it is degrees, 4 dp gives and error of +/- 0.00005 degrees. At the
equator, 1 degree of longitude is about 67 miles. (24000 / 360) So, +/-
0.00005 degrees is down in the yds. Do you need to know the position of the
repeater to, say, 6 yds?

(If the 4dp it minutes, then it is 60 times smaller, and once you moved from
the equator it gets compresses again in longittude.)

>BTW when I
> say an area I don't mean an area and a half or even half an area whichever
> takes you fancy.

>
> If I could remind you that the origin of these posts was about converting
> Locators to Lat/Long in case you had forgot.

I've watched the thread, this diversion is due to your not understanding the
requirement for precision.

--
Brian Reay
www.g8osn.org.uk
www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk
FP#898

[KW]

"Brian Reay" <brian.reay@(spamstopper)bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:***@uni-berlin.de...
> I've watched the thread, this diversion is due to your not understanding
the
> requirement for precision.


My original statement was similar to... It can not be converted... that's
precise enough for me!

G1ITV

[Brian Reay]

"KW" <***@MTLworld.com> wrote in message
news:YNBad.1506$***@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
>
> "Brian Reay" <brian.reay@(spamstopper)bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:***@uni-berlin.de...
> > I've watched the thread, this diversion is due to your not understanding
> the
> > requirement for precision.
>
>
> My original statement was similar to... It can not be converted... that's
> precise enough for me!
>

It can be.

Just as you can convert between Lat/Long and OS grid or vice versa.

A GPS works in Lat/Long using the relevant spheriod (WGS84 if memory serves
but it is awhile since I did this in anger). It can display your position in
a range of other co-ordinates, including Maidenhead in the case of the
Garmins.

Now, the size of the Maidenhead locator square means that and Lat / Long
derived from a Maidenhead locator cannot be derived with a precision any
better than +/- half the size of the locator square (and that is ignoring
other errors), but it is still a position. As the errors are in 2
dimensions, the error represents an area.

--
Brian Reay
www.g8osn.org.uk
www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk
FP#898

[Chris Kirby]

Brian Reay wrote:


>
>Just as you can convert between Lat/Long and OS grid or vice versa.
>
>A GPS works in Lat/Long using the relevant spheriod (WGS84 if memory serves
>but it is awhile since I did this in anger). It can display your position in
>a range of other co-ordinates, including Maidenhead in the case of the
>Garmins.
>
>Now, the size of the Maidenhead locator square means that and Lat / Long
>derived from a Maidenhead locator cannot be derived with a precision any
>better than +/- half the size of the locator square (and that is ignoring
>other errors), but it is still a position. As the errors are in 2
>dimensions, the error represents an area.
>


What about the third dimension? A position given in Lat and Long
refers to a point on the surface of the Earth, but no allowance made
for its altitude.

A derived Lat/Long reference, when converting from another system,
would presumably refer to a point on the surface which is at the same
altitude as the rest of the curved reference plane.

Now, since the earth is not a perfect sphere, an altitude displacement
would move the intended location away from being directly above the
reference point, and therefore it would be inaccurate.

Is this a correct assumption?



--
Chris

[Brian Reay]

"Chris Kirby" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:***@4ax.com...
>
>
> What about the third dimension? A position given in Lat and Long
> refers to a point on the surface of the Earth, but no allowance made
> for its altitude.
>
> A derived Lat/Long reference, when converting from another system,
> would presumably refer to a point on the surface which is at the same
> altitude as the rest of the curved reference plane.
>
> Now, since the earth is not a perfect sphere, an altitude displacement
> would move the intended location away from being directly above the
> reference point, and therefore it would be inaccurate.
>
> Is this a correct assumption?
>

Yes, I mentioned the 3D aspects elsewhere in the thread. However, Ken is
having trouble with 2D at the moment and adding a third isn't going to help
him ;-)

In fact altitude errors can give all kinds of problems in weapon aiming
algorithms. .............


--
Brian Reay
www.g8osn.org.uk
www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk
FP#898

[KW]

"Brian Reay" <***@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:***@uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Chris Kirby" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:***@4ax.com...
> >
> >
> > What about the third dimension? A position given in Lat and Long
> > refers to a point on the surface of the Earth, but no allowance made
> > for its altitude.
> >
> > A derived Lat/Long reference, when converting from another system,
> > would presumably refer to a point on the surface which is at the same
> > altitude as the rest of the curved reference plane.
> >
> > Now, since the earth is not a perfect sphere, an altitude displacement
> > would move the intended location away from being directly above the
> > reference point, and therefore it would be inaccurate.
> >
> > Is this a correct assumption?
> >
>
> Yes, I mentioned the 3D aspects elsewhere in the thread. However, Ken is
> having trouble with 2D at the moment and adding a third isn't going to
help
> him ;-)
>
> In fact altitude errors can give all kinds of problems in weapon aiming
> algorithms

Carry on without me ... I'll call back in a couple of days to see how you
are going on.

Must dash, G1ITV

[Brian Reay]

"KW" <***@MTLworld.com> wrote in message
news:I1Ead.1593$***@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
>
> "Brian Reay" <***@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:***@uni-berlin.de...
>>
>> "Chris Kirby" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:***@4ax.com...
>> >
>> >
>> > What about the third dimension? A position given in Lat and Long
>> > refers to a point on the surface of the Earth, but no allowance made
>> > for its altitude.
>> >
>> > A derived Lat/Long reference, when converting from another system,
>> > would presumably refer to a point on the surface which is at the same
>> > altitude as the rest of the curved reference plane.
>> >
>> > Now, since the earth is not a perfect sphere, an altitude displacement
>> > would move the intended location away from being directly above the
>> > reference point, and therefore it would be inaccurate.
>> >
>> > Is this a correct assumption?
>> >
>>
>> Yes, I mentioned the 3D aspects elsewhere in the thread. However, Ken is
>> having trouble with 2D at the moment and adding a third isn't going to
> help
>> him ;-)
>>
>> In fact altitude errors can give all kinds of problems in weapon aiming
>> algorithms
>
> Carry on without me ... I'll call back in a couple of days to see how you
> are going on.
>
> Must dash, G1ITV

Doing an "Airy" ?

--
Brian Reay
www.g8osn.org.uk
www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk
FP#898

[Roger Muggleton]

In article <***@uni-berlin.de>,
brian.reay@(spamstopper)bigfoot.com (Brian Reay) wrote:

> A GPS works in Lat/Long using the relevant spheriod (WGS84 if memory
> serves but it is awhile since I did this in anger). It can display your
> position in a range of other co-ordinates, including Maidenhead in the
> case of the Garmins.

Different spheroids are used to find a convenient surface that fits best to
the area or country you are interested in. None of them fit the whole world
because the earth is not a perfect ellipsoid. Having decided on a suitable
ellipsoid, such as the Airey Spheroid originally used by Ordnance Survey,
you then have to fit it to actual features on the ground. This is done by
defining a Terrestrial Reference Frame - the OS one is called OSGB 1936 and
is defined by triangulation around defined trip pillars. The OS maps reflect
this, and to make calculations more difficult the map scale varies across
the country.

The WGS84 datum (TRF) is based on the Geodetic Reference System 1980 - GRS80
ellipsoid. This doesn't fit the UK very well, in fact it makes the country
appear to slope from one side to the other.

A third factor in UK mapping is height - the reference being the sea level
at Newlyn. So we have a second TRF that defines the height of the country -
OSGB36 does not define this. So on an OS map, distances between points are
defined using OSGB36, and heights by ODN (Ordnance Datum Newlyn).

Calculating between these different systems is inexact. While it is easy to
convert between ellipsoids (even though the position of the poles vary, and
the meridians also vary), it is difficult to convert between one TRF/Datum
and another, because the fundamental reference points are physical objects
on the ground.

GPS units convert between ellipsoids, using a simple transformation.

There is loads of stuff on the OS website, and a simple description of
mapping in the UK: http://www.gps.gov.uk/guide5.asp

--
Roger.

[l***@eternal-flames.gov]

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:31:20 GMT, ***@cix.co.uk (Roger Muggleton),
took time away from the true obsession of his life - his extensive
collection of earwax and toenail clippings - to write:

>Different spheroids

Anusol is supposed to be good for treating spheroids.
Ask Brian... He'll know about it. :-)

Nick.

[Andy Cowley]

Chris Kirby wrote:

> Brian Reay wrote:
>
>
>
>>Just as you can convert between Lat/Long and OS grid or vice versa.
>>
>>A GPS works in Lat/Long using the relevant spheriod (WGS84 if memory serves
>>but it is awhile since I did this in anger). It can display your position in
>>a range of other co-ordinates, including Maidenhead in the case of the
>>Garmins.
>>
>>Now, the size of the Maidenhead locator square means that and Lat / Long
>>derived from a Maidenhead locator cannot be derived with a precision any
>>better than +/- half the size of the locator square (and that is ignoring
>>other errors), but it is still a position. As the errors are in 2
>>dimensions, the error represents an area.
>>
>
>
>
> What about the third dimension? A position given in Lat and Long
> refers to a point on the surface of the Earth, but no allowance made
> for its altitude.
>
> A derived Lat/Long reference, when converting from another system,
> would presumably refer to a point on the surface which is at the same
> altitude as the rest of the curved reference plane.
>
> Now, since the earth is not a perfect sphere, an altitude displacement
> would move the intended location away from being directly above the
> reference point, and therefore it would be inaccurate.
>
> Is this a correct assumption?
>

Yes. But it is possible to make the necessary correction for both the
different spheroid (curved surface) normal direction used and the
effect of altitude, so this error can be corrected.

vy 73

Andy, M1EBV

[Andy Cowley]

KW wrote:

> "Andy Cowley" <***@uwe.ac.uk> wrote in message
> news:***@bath.ac.uk...
> too.
>
>>There is no need for any geometric transform when converting between
>
> Maidenhead
>
>>Locator and Lat/Long, The Maidenhead Locator being exactly based on
>
> Lat/Long
>
>>and introduced for convenience and improved readability when sending such
>>information via an unreliable or noisy channel such as Amateur radio.
>
>
> I had better inform Kinloss Radio and the Rescue services of the Maidenhead
> system which has the miraculous properties "convenience and improved
> readability when sending such information via an unreliable or noisy
> channel".
>
> I'm sure they will give up with the nasty old Lat/Long right away!
>
> G1ITV
>
>
If you don't think that sending a patterned series of two letters,
two numbers, two letters, etc. is more likely to be read correctly
than an unpatterned series of digits, which is what a Lat/Long is,
then I'm afraid I can't help you. Logic and practicality have never
bothered the military. In any case they very rarely use Lat/Long for
operational position reporting, mostly they use ad-hoc area names
or designators, partly for security reasons.

I'd be very interested to hear what you think the reason for the
development of the Maidenhead Locator system was, if my suggestion
is incorrect?

vy 73

Andy, M1EBV (IO81ql)

[§|ª®TiߪRtfª$t]

Pointless coming on here, trying to appear sensible, with an M1 call sign!

[ZZZPK]

"§|ª®TiߪRtfª$t" <§|ª®Tiߪrtfª$***@norway-coastline.net> wrote:

: Pointless coming on here, trying to appear sensible, with an M1 call sign!


what have gateways got to do with multi-band cb radio anyway ?

:

[Nimrod]

"ZZZPK" <***@multi_band_cb_is_here.eircom.es.it.net> wrote
in message news:***@news.iol.ie...
> "§|ª®TiߪRtfª$t" <§|ª®Tiߪrtfª$***@norway-coastline.net> wrote:
>
> : Pointless coming on here, trying to appear sensible, with an M1 call
sign!
>
>
> what have gateways got to do with multi-band cb radio anyway ?

WHAT HAS AN IRISH AMATEUR TO DO WITH A UK NEWSGROUP?

[Gareth (G1LVN)]

"KW" <***@MTLworld.com> wrote in message
news:ZHY8d.360$***@newsfe3-win.ntli.net...
>
> "Nick" <***@my-website.net> wrote in message
> news:***@4ax.com...
> > - And on Wed, 6 Oct 2004 15:06:30 +0000 (UTC), it was spake thus in
> <***@news.btinternet.com> said in message ***@hotmail.com
> (rr):
> >
> > > Callsign Freq Location Locator Last Updated
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > Anyone point me the way to a way of calculating - in MS Excel - the
> Lat/Long
> > from a Locator Square ?
>
> It's not possible
>
It is but you only get you the centre of the square or top left hand corner
or whatever you stipulate. The squares are quite big.

[KW]

"Gareth (G1LVN)" <***@MYCALLSIGN.org.uk> wrote in message
news:ck36c6$bgd$***@sparta.btinternet.com...
>
> "KW" <***@MTLworld.com> wrote in message
> news:ZHY8d.360$***@newsfe3-win.ntli.net...
> >
> > "Nick" <***@my-website.net> wrote in message
> > news:***@4ax.com...
> > > - And on Wed, 6 Oct 2004 15:06:30 +0000 (UTC), it was spake thus in
> > <***@news.btinternet.com> said in message ***@hotmail.com
> > (rr):
> > >
> > > > Callsign Freq Location Locator Last Updated
> > >
> > > <snip>
> > >
> > > Anyone point me the way to a way of calculating - in MS Excel - the
> > Lat/Long
> > > from a Locator Square ?
> >
> > It's not possible
> >
> It is but you only get you the centre of the square or top left hand
corner
> or whatever you stipulate. The squares are quite big.

Well now, lets remove the "It is but" .. lovely word is "but".

This leaves us with........ "you only get you the centre of the square or
top left hand corner or whatever you stipulate".
This proves my statment that it is impossible to change a "Locator"
reference into a "Lat/Long".

If you require to go the "othe way" of lat/long to Locator then no-problem!

G1ITV.

[Andy Cowley]

KW wrote:

> "Nick" <***@my-website.net> wrote in message
> news:***@4ax.com...
>
>>- And on Wed, 6 Oct 2004 15:06:30 +0000 (UTC), it was spake thus in
>
> <***@news.btinternet.com> said in message ***@hotmail.com
> (rr):
>
>>>Callsign Freq Location Locator Last Updated
>>
>><snip>
>>
>>Anyone point me the way to a way of calculating - in MS Excel - the
>
> Lat/Long
>
>>from a Locator Square ?
>
>
> It's not possible
>


Why do you believe that?
Both are geographic coordinate systems. They
both give an accurate, unambiguous location.
There must be a transform from one to the other.

Please explain.

vy 73

Andy, M1EBV

[KW]

"Andy Cowley" <***@uwe.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:***@bath.ac.uk...
> KW wrote:
>
> > "Nick" <***@my-website.net> wrote in message
> > news:***@4ax.com...
> >
> >>- And on Wed, 6 Oct 2004 15:06:30 +0000 (UTC), it was spake thus in
> >
> > <***@news.btinternet.com> said in message ***@hotmail.com
> > (rr):
> >
> >>>Callsign Freq Location Locator Last Updated
> >>
> >><snip>
> >>
> >>Anyone point me the way to a way of calculating - in MS Excel - the
> >
> > Lat/Long
> >
> >>from a Locator Square ?
> >
> >
> > It's not possible
> >
>
>
> Why do you believe that?
> Both are geographic coordinate systems. They
> both give an accurate, unambiguous location.
> There must be a transform from one to the other.
>
> Please explain.

Here goes.......................

Lets say I give you a full address then you may be able to find a particular
house.

If I only give you the Town then you will be able to find lots of houses but
not the crrect one required.

Please feel free to ask for further assistance.

G1ITV

[Roger Muggleton]

In article <***@4ax.com>,
***@my-website.net (Nick) wrote:

> Anyone point me the way to a way of calculating - in MS Excel - the
> Lat/Long from a Locator Square ?

This converts the centre of a ten digit locator (like IO94ED23BC) to degrees
latitude and longitude. Not Excel, but Javascript, but its easy enough to
convert (says he, not knowing much about Excel):

function conv_loc_to_deg(locator)
{
var i = 0;
var loca = new Array();

while (i < 10)
{
loca[i] = locator.charCodeAt(i) - 65;
i++;
}
loca[2] += 17;
loca[3] += 17;
loca[6] += 17;
loca[7] += 17;
var lon = (loca[0] * 20 + loca[2] * 2 + loca[4] / 12 + loca[6] / 120 +
loca[8] / 2880 - 180);
var lat = (loca[1] * 10 + loca[3] + loca[5] / 24 + loca[7] / 240 + loca[9]
/5760 - 90);
var geo = { latitude: lat, longitude: lon };
return(geo);
}

If you just want 6 character locators, substitute:

var lon = (loca[0] * 20 + loca[2] * 2 + loca[4] / 12 - 180 + 1 / 24);
var lat = (loca[1] * 10 + loca[3] + loca[5] / 24 - 90 + 1 / 48);

and change to 10 in the while line to 6.

The letters are first converted to upper case. loca[0] is the first
character, etc. Watch any word wraps.

--
Roger.

[Nick]

- And on Wed, 06 Oct 2004 21:24:11 +0100, it was spake thus in <***@4ax.com> said in message Nick <***@my-website.net>:

> - And on Wed, 6 Oct 2004 15:06:30 +0000 (UTC), it was spake thus in <***@news.btinternet.com> said in message ***@hotmail.com (rr):
>
> > Callsign Freq Location Locator Last Updated
>
> <snip>
>
> Anyone point me the way to a way of calculating - in MS Excel - the Lat/Long
> from a Locator Square ?
>
> MTIA

Ok all, I started quite a discussion there...

All I'm after is some sort of formula that will produce me a Lat/Long - or
even an OS Grid Ref - using MS Excel, from all those Locator details that were
included in the original post...
I have copied all the info from the original post and pasted it into a
spreadsheet and want to find a formula to do all the hard work quickly...

I don't want it to be to the nearest 20 feet, just the nearest mile or so...

It will save me a lot of work as I just want to enter them into my GPS so that
it'll tell me when I'm within range of a repeater as I drive about in
different areas...

I have a feeling with all the replies I've had, that I'm going to have to do
it the long way round ?
--
7 3 for now, Nick G7COC
g7coc at
www.whelan.me.uk
Also nickw7coc on
Yahoo Messenger
& on MSN Messenger
& www.skype.com !

[Gareth "lazy-arsed Class B"]

"Nick" <***@my-website.net> wrote in message
news:***@4ax.com...
> - And on Wed, 06 Oct 2004 21:24:11 +0100, it was spake thus in
<***@4ax.com> said in message Nick
<***@my-website.net>:
>
> Ok all, I started quite a discussion there...
>
> All I'm after is some sort of formula that will produce me a Lat/Long - or
> even an OS Grid Ref - using MS Excel, from all those Locator details that
were
> included in the original post...
> I have copied all the info from the original post and pasted it into a
> spreadsheet and want to find a formula to do all the hard work quickly...
>

No need the NGR was entered by all NoV applicants as well as the Locator
Square. You just need to ask the DCC for the PHP code to access the SQL
database on the site to get it.

[Roger Muggleton]

In article <***@4ax.com>,
***@my-website.net (Nick) wrote:

> I have a feeling with all the replies I've had, that I'm going to have to
> do it the long way round ?

It should be easy enough to convert the formula that I posted from
Javascript into Excel, after all it's only a few lines of code.

function conv_loc_to_deg(locator)
{
var i = 0;
var loca = new Array();

while (i < 6)
{
loca[i] = locator.charCodeAt(i) - 65;
i++;
}
loca[2] += 17;
loca[3] += 17;
lon = (loca[0] * 20 + loca[2] * 2 + loca[4] / 12 - 180 + 1 / 24);
lat = (loca[1] * 10 + loca[3] + loca[5] / 24 - 90 + 1 / 48);
}

--
Roger.

[Chris Kirby]

Hi Nick,

(with apologies to all who have variable pitch fonts, and
line wraps set to less than 140)


Send this waypoint file to your GPS. Cut and paste the below,
and save it with file extension .WPT

The callsign of the repeater is the first two letters of the
field named "IDNT", and the channel is the remaining characters of the same field.

For example, see the first repeater, GB3AB, which is on RB14.
The file is a few years old, so newer repeaters will need
adding manually. Hope this suits your needs.



H R DATUM IDX DA DF DX DY DZ
M G WGS 84 121 +0.000000e+00 +0.000000e+00 +0.000000e+00 +0.000000e+00 +0.000000e+00

H COORDINATE SYSTEM
U LAT LON DM

H IDNT LATITUDE LONGITUDE DATE TIME ALT DESCRIPTION PROXIMITY SYMBOL ;waypts
W ABRB14 N5707.49298 W00210.09594 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W AGR5 N5632.49594 W00250.08993 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W AHRB11 N5235.02196 E00044.89728 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W ANRB8 N5322.51347 W00420.07440 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W ARR4 N5300.01575 W00420.07375 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W ASR0 N5445.00620 W00310.08387 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W AVRB2 N5149.19996 W00048.95987 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W AWRB10 N5119.08014 W00123.28002 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W AYR2 N5542.49968 W00450.07544 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W BARB1 N5659.99352 W00225.09389 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W BBR4 N5110.02737 W00250.07931 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W BCR6 N5135.02470 W00310.07808 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W BDRB6 N5200.02428 W00035.09360 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W BERB9 N5212.52391 E00039.89871 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W BFR2 N5207.52341 W00030.09439 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W BIR5 N5734.98862 W00420.08277 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W BKRB11 N5127.52685 W00110.08935 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W BLRB7 N5207.52341 W00030.09439 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W BNRB0 N5125.02724 W00010.09338 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W BSRB10 N5127.52588 W00235.08104 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W BTR4 N5545.00121 W00205.09287 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W BVRB1 N5142.52576 W00030.09343 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W BXR3 N5237.51931 W00205.08611 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W CARB13 N5447.50613 W00250.08607 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W CBRB14 N5228.60203 W00153.50187 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W CCRB3 N5050.50206 W00046.30191 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W CERB14 N5152.52611 E00054.89795 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W CFR0 N5241.29993 W00117.49997 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W CHRB2 N5030.03016 W00430.06863 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W CIRB2 N5229.99990 W00040.30202 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W CKRB0 N5112.52987 E00044.90050 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W CLRB9 N5147.52690 E00109.89686 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W CMRB8 N5150.02264 W00415.07229 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W CRRB6 N5305.01624 W00305.08112 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W CSR6 N5549.99945 W00355.08157 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W CVRB9 N5222.52136 W00130.08908 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W CWRB6 N5227.51960 W00325.07796 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W CYRB13 N5357.51244 W00110.09450 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W DAR5 N5142.52673 E00029.90094 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W DCRB11 N5442.50789 W00115.09564 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W DDRB10 N5628.00206 W00258.99787 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W DGR7 N5452.50469 W00420.07697 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W DIRB6 N5132.52638 W00120.08841 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W DSRB13 N5318.89989 W00107.19997 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W DTRB0 N5050.02957 W00210.08243 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W DVRB1 N5325.01533 W00115.09274 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W DYRB10 N5302.51728 W00135.08990 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W EARB8 N5055.02974 W00125.08665 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W EBRB5 N5135.02727 E00014.90235 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W ECR2 N5225.02096 W00145.08767 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W EDRB14 N5554.99931 W00315.08598 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W EERB12 N5310.01674 W00130.09069 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W EHRB8 N5205.02284 W00135.08797 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W EKRB2 N5122.52925 E00119.89689 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W ELR0 N5130.02742 W00000.09592 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W EMRB1 N5247.51933 W00050.09380 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W ERRB3 N5142.52673 E00029.90094 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W ESR3 N5052.53142 E00034.90208 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W EVR4 N5440.00732 W00230.08795 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W EXRB0 N5037.52994 W00335.07412 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W FCRB2 N5350.01169 W00305.08273 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W FFR0 N5602.49876 W00315.08630 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W FNRB15 N5113.19999 W00047.59806 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W FRR7 N5310.01802 W00000.09947 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W GBRB12 N5232.52010 W00155.08705 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W GCRB4 N5340.01424 W00055.09526 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W GDR1 N5412.50845 W00435.07428 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W GFRB12 N5114.99986 W00034.00216 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W GHRB5 N5150.02393 W00210.08436 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W GLRB14 N5527.50269 W00210.09176 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W GNR7 N5659.99352 W00225.09389 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W GRRB11 N5255.60201 W00038.40012 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W GURB13 N4927.53716 W00235.07782 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W GYRB11 N5332.50899 W02004.97790 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W HARB6 N5347.51434 W00010.10014 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W HBRB15 N5020.03077 W00450.06675 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W HCRB6 N5203.59988 W00243.39804 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W HDRB9 N5337.51367 W00155.08931 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W HERB14 N5052.53142 E00034.90208 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W HGR1 N5421.20010 W00107.49994 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W HHR4 N5313.70016 W00152.49990 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W HIR4 N5627.49448 W00545.07092 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W HJRB1 N5358.79990 W00132.49985 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W HKRB14 N5532.50222 W00215.09129 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W HLRB3 N5130.02710 W00030.09310 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W HNRB11 N5155.02507 W00015.09548 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W HORB1 N5105.02977 W00020.09308 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W HRRB14 N5135.02663 W00025.09358 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W HSR2 N5345.01409 W00035.09747 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W HTRB11 N5231.99803 W00123.29805 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W HURB3 N5347.51370 W00035.09747 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W HWRB13 N5132.52734 E00009.90314 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W HYRB5 N5057.53031 W00010.09402 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W HZRB7 N5135.02630 W00050.09123 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W IGR7 N5809.98373 W00640.06801 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W IHRB4 N5202.52549 E00109.89622 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W IMRB5 N5415.00838 W00430.07475 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W IWRB4 N5039.29987 W00119.50004 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W KARB3 N5535.00054 W00420.07826 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W KLRB4 N5245.02069 E00024.89883 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W KNR4 N5117.52908 E00029.90158 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W KRRB3 N5223.20210 W00214.80193 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W KSR1 N5105.03073 E00109.89847 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W KVRB8 N5554.99866 W00425.07843 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W KYR2 N5245.02069 E00024.89883 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W LARB8 N5347.51305 W00140.09104 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W LCRB13 N5320.01709 W00000.10011 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W LDR3 N5410.00981 W00310.08290 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W LERB4 N5240.01988 W00120.09066 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W LFRB14 N5402.50199 W00247.80212 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W LGR3 N5607.49668 W00525.07248 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W LHRB15 N5237.51899 W00250.08189 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W LIRB10 N5327.51397 W00305.08177 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W LLRB0 N5317.51426 W00355.07675 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W LMR5 N5312.51731 W00035.09618 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W LRRB11 N5045.03165 W00000.09432 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W LSRB2 N5314.59784 W00031.90199 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W LTRB10 N5153.89790 W00026.40003 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W LVRB2 N5137.52687 W00005.09578 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W LWRB6 N5130.02742 W00010.09499 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W LYR0 N5505.00207 W00655.06113 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W MARB1 N5335.01374 W00220.08664 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W MBR0 N5335.01374 W00220.08664 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W MDRB3 N5307.51713 W00115.09210 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W MERB6 N5222.52136 W00115.09049 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W MFRB7 N5315.49810 W00207.39807 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W MGRB7 N5135.02437 W00335.07573 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W MKRB0 N5202.99992 W00045.29994 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W MLRB10 N5549.99945 W00355.08157 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W MNR2 N5317.51555 W00205.08740 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W MPR6 N5312.51505 W00320.08003 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W MRRB14 N5317.51555 W00205.08740 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W MTRB12 N5337.30188 W00231.39794 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W MWRB10 N5217.52183 W00135.08861 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W MXR6 N5307.51713 W00115.09210 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W NAR3 N5335.01439 W00135.09119 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W NBR1 N5230.02275 E00104.89572 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W NCR5 N5020.03077 W00450.06675 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W NDRB14 N5057.52774 W00410.07115 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W NFRB11 N5051.19987 W00124.19798 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W NGR1 N5734.99023 W00205.09770 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W NHRB3 N5212.52262 W00055.09205 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W NIR5 N5435.00553 W00550.06723 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W NKRB4 N5117.52875 E00014.90299 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W NLR7 N5137.52687 W00005.09578 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W NMRB7 N5258.90209 W00107.90195 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W NNRB2 N5252.52015 E00044.89663 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W NRRB0 N5237.52220 E00114.89446 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W NSRB10 N5117.52843 W00015.09419 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W NTRB0 N5456.20196 W00134.79990 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W NWR5 N5135.02695 W00015.09484 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W NXRB2 N5105.02977 W00005.09449 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W NYRB0 N5415.01127 W00030.09922 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W OCR2 N5857.48136 W00305.09464 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W OHRB4 N5557.49891 W00340.08331 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W OMRB15 N5440.00442 W00715.05828 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W OSRB2 N5227.52025 W00210.08532 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W OVRB5 N5207.52373 W00010.09627 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W OXRB12 N5145.02504 W00115.08920 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W PAR1 N5547.49921 W00430.07764 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W PBRB10 N5235.02099 W00020.09630 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W PCR7 N5047.53061 W00110.08806 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W PER3 N5232.52106 W00025.09583 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W PFRB0 N5347.20213 W00226.40002 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W PGRB9 N5554.99834 W00450.07576 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W PHRB2 N5051.59995 W00103.40196 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W PIR6 N5200.02460 W00005.09642 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W POR2 N5202.52549 E00104.89669 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W PPRB15 N5345.01248 W00245.08461 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W PTRB12 N5202.39996 W00000.10204 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W PURB0 N5619.99664 W00330.08521 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W PWR7 N5227.51960 W00325.07796 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W PYRB8 N5212.52359 W00000.09753 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W RAR5 N5215.02062 W00330.07716 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W RCRB9 N5302.51631 W00300.08159 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W RERB11 N5117.52908 E00034.90111 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
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W WZR3 N5302.51631 W00300.08159 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W XXRB13 N5215.02223 W00110.09096 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
W YCR0 N5406.19990 W00027.50016 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 VHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0
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W ZIRB11 N5247.51837 W00205.08644 11-SEP-97 15:00:00 -9999 UHF Repeater 0.00000e+00 0